Racism and Ignorance in America

admin: You are half right. People are xenophobic when they have closed borders, and are at first racist when they are opened. People are tolerant until they have to live with another culture. Immigration to America is unprecedented. You shouldn't use North Korea as an example. That culture is forced on them.

Blackflag: But the more racist you are, the more your racial identity is forced on you. You lose the ability to have an alternative racial identity, because if you do you'll be driven out by the racists. Insofar as your country is racist, so far is your culture forced on you.

Further, I would argue that many multicultural societies do exist that ARE rather tolerant. While often exceptions, they do exist as a strong counter-example to the general principle.

Blackflag: I know about the Jim Crow laws. Believe me, America's racism is pretty well publicised everywhere.

At least you stopped short of actually forcibly removing an entire generation of children from their parents so they could "raised right" - although it wouldn't surprise me if people advocated that over there.

nzlockie: "America's racism is pretty well publicised everywhere."

This is true. Usually America does the publicising themselves.

admin: true story.

nzlockie: Ahh, you're referring to the assimilation of natives into the white bloodline, correct? No, I've heard some pretty racist things, but that would never happen or be seriously considered.

Blackflag: The Stolen Generation.
It's one of a couple of dark spots in our neighbor's history...

http://www.nsdc.org.au/stolen-generations/history-of-the-stolen-generations/the-history-of-the-stolen-generations

Blackflag: "People are tolerant until they have to live with another culture." That's not tolerance. That's like saying someine can swim until they're in deep water.

sea_shell: That seems like an accurate analogy to what I'm saying, and is exactly what is going on. People can say they're tolerant from afar, but when those cultures they tolerated move into their own neighborhoods, their fragility is exposed.

sea_shell: Or perhaps a bit of background will better explain it. The USA's most popular slogan is "America is a free country!". It is written in our constitution, legislation, monument, and historical writings. We're supposed to be a country where every race, religion, and creed can flock. Therefore, the constitutional conservatives claim to be tolerant, yet they fight to close the borders and kick out immigrants. Hypocrisy at its best. They often abandon such sayings when tolerance actually becomes a tough thing to uphold.

As written on the statue of liberty, "Give us your poor, tired, and huddled masses". To bad we can't live up to ol' mother liberty anymore.

Blackflag: I get that, as long as we're all understanding that it's not true tolerance. I don't think any country lives up to its ideals, but that doesn't make the hypocrisy any easier to swallow.

Blackflag: What do you mean anymore? America has ALWAYS been like that. Remember when you had that big Irish immigration way back in 1820-1860? Even the earliest policies limited citizenship to "free white men" - a policy that was not changed completely until the 1950s. Yet the Irish suffered just as much persecution, if not more, than the Chinese did in our early history.

I have nothing to contribute, I'm just commenting as part of team kiwi.

Hey maybe we should make a team!

nzlockie: That's racist.

sea_shell: *eye roll*

nzlockie: Fine then, I'm in.

admin: There is actually a good story about that. We need to first clear up, that the Irish weren't abused politically or restricted politically. There was just no love, given the Irish had taken 50% of the countries low paying jobs. Connecticut and Delaware are now predominantly Irish. During the American Civil War,, 1000's of Irish citizens left their country to fight in the war. The Irish community leaders encouraged people join the conflict, so they could prove themselves as patriotic Americans. One of our most famous stories is that of the Irish Brigade, a title for the 5 regiments of Irish soldiers that fought in the majority of battles. They took the third most casualties than any brigade in the war, and more than any southern unit. "We'll fight for Uncle Sam" is a popular pub song today, and tells of how the Irish were treated as tramps, but will fight for Uncle Sam, and will be laid asunder glory.



That is exactly what happened. The Irish were proven into the United States. If people mistake discrimination in the United States as "white vs all", then they would be wrong. America isn't as much of a racial hierarchy rather than a caste system. You have to work your way up the castes. Should it be like that? I don't think so, but these are the ideals America was built on. Equal opportunity to a man of any ethnicity, religion, or background, regardless of social status. Pretty far, we have done well in maintaining that promise.

Even though there is a lot of hate on Mexicans and Arabs (there is only soft bigotry for Africans), we all have equal opportunity under the law, and that is what truly scares these old timer racists. They're scared, and justifiably so, that the Mexicans, Africans, and Arabs, will integrate themselves into the economy, and be as successful as they are. If you're Italian or Irish now, you're likely making a high income and are accepted by almost everyone. That will one day be the case with all our other minorities. By rule of thumb, a group becomes integrated after the third generation passes.

You made the mistake of saying "America" discriminated against the Irish. I don't know what "America" is. If you're referring to the Revolutionary Congress, then I would have to inform you that the Irish had equal rights. If you were referring to the "American" people, again, I would have to ensure you that the Irish were Americans as well. Here's another video.



The shopkeeper keeps saying she's not American because of how she dresses. She is later defended by people who claim she is as American as he is. That's because America is supposed to be a dummy term for anyone with American nationality. Smart people know that nationality shouldn't be confused with ethnicity. Especially in a country like the United States, where every man in ensured equal opportunity and equal rights. As the stoical man I am, I don't buy into the "we caused your suffering" ideas that you pushed forward. You make yourself in this country. You aren't given a free seat.

Black Americans weren't given liberty from the Jim Crow laws. They fought for it. They rose to prominent positions in business, went to the streets at protests, and made their way into society. Just like all our ancestors did before us. The Germans were also the most abused group at one point. The French were hated during the early years of our republic. We started as Anglo-Saxons, but now, English is only 5% of our nation. If you're in that 95%, then your ancestors were once discriminated against. Your families were once abused, yet now, no one will care if you're French, German, Irish, Italian, and most of the time, Black.

Side Note: The Jim Crow laws didn't provide limited citizenship. They separated social classes, IE, had to go to a different school, side of the bus, ect.
While the laws were dreadful, to say they gave limited citizenship, would be inaccurate. Thankfully that is now constitutionally barred from a new amendment.

sea_shell: Why does there have to be one level of tolerance? If anything, tolerance can be measured into different tiers.

Blackflag: You can have varying degrees of intolerance, for sure. But you cannot define a person or system as racially tolerant if it's only when conditions are such that their intolerance can show. Just like there can be different levels of bad but one level of holy, different levels of health but one level of dead.