Drug Legalization

Blackflag: Drugs don't enhance individuality either. Meth users all become less like themselves and more like the behaviors the drug encourages.

admin: You are being hypocritical. You support freedoms in certain areas where one belief certainly has negative consequences, but support banning freedoms in other areas under the same contextual problems.

Think of what all the drug users could offer me in terms of choice if they didn't have those addictions.
Nope. I have as much choices in how I interact with a drugee as I would a middle class white man. The choices are more special given there are less drugees than there are middle class white men. Either way, it doesn't matter. I refuse to control people's liberty for to increase my own personal liberty.

In a dictatorship, the dictator is usually the freest man in the country. "I don't want atheists in my country! Atheists have no morals, and they threaten my power! Threats to my power are threats to my liberty!" How much of this communist/elitist bullshit can I take before I crack?v

Blackflag: ... and do I believe in maximizing only my freedoms? No, I'm maximizing everyone's freedoms. Both mine and the drugees.

Show me how banning free thought has the same contextual problems as banning drugs.

Blackflag: Dude, I am the angriest, most violent-tempered person you're ever going to meet, and even I think you're getting a little too worked up over this.

admin: Do not be daft to the point. In retrospect freedom cannot be taken away.
Liberty is the right to seal my own fate. If other people control my fate, then they control my liberty. If they control my liberty, then I am as much of a slave to the elites than I am the drug. At least you can fight a drug and win. The elites are not so easy to overcome.

Dassault Papillon: No, I just really am opposed to any hints of authoritarianism. This is not about drugs. Me and admin have had this conversation before.
If sex was bad for my health, admin would be crusading on these forums to ban non-marital sex. Isn't it ridiculous when others try to control my choices, because my freedoms might take away my freedoms? Does that make sense? If it didn't make sense, then we are on the same page. These arguments ring !!!crazy!!! for me.

Blackflag: So basically Admin believes that people should not be allowed to make choices which destroy their own lives. And you believe people should be allowed to make these choices.

At the same time, though, most actions that we do affect others. If you own private property, someone else is deprived of the right to be on that land.
If you build a shoddy building for yourself to live in, when the building collapses someone else could be hurt.
When you commit suicide or ruin your own life, somebody who cares about you is emotionally hurt.

Dassault Papillon: That is why we need to decide where to draw the line. I believe doing something to myself for myself should be acceptable, regardless of whether it affects someone else. I draw the line where an action can have clear negative consequences on another, such as physical pain. In fact, I almost always draw the line when an action will cause someone else physical pain.

I think emotional burdens and burdens to societies productivity are not a matter of great concern though. If using drugs made societies ilk emotionally distressed, I would not care so much as if using drugs causes societies ilk to be killed off.

This is a tough topic. In my opinion dangerous drugs like cocaine, Meth, and heroin should be illegal and Cannabis should be legal.

Dassault Papillon: Yet I do not accept the premise that elites such as admin necessarily know what is best for the individual. Hence why freedom of choice exists. I am sure fascists like Hitler, Sung, and King George the III thought they had the best interests of their populations in heart. It turns out they didn't, and that is usually the case in every elitist society.

RXR.: Right now public opinion is shifting rapidly towards cannnabis legalization. It will be a long way before me and other progressives can convince people that drugs like Cocaine and Meth should be legalized. The image that the drug war mules have painted in our head is that taking meth will make you a murderous lunatic crackhead. In reality meth users have bad teeth and lay around on their ass all day.

I also believe incorporating drugs into the economy will create new lucrative markets and allow better regulation of the drug trade. It would diminish the power of cartels and their grip over peasants and city folk, all the while creating jobs and improving the quality and conditions of those who buy and use drugs.

Blackflag: Just be aware that such freedoms will also mean greater suffering.

Blackflag: Laws and fought and overcome more easily than drugs. All you need is majority support. Not a high standard.

By that logic, however, you'd oppose laws negating your freedom to murder. We give up liberties to ensure other liberties all the time through the process of mutual forfeiture of rights. That's where government and law comes from.

Dassault Papillon: No, I disagree. People do drugs regardless of legalization. The greater suffering is that they are forced to do so in unsanitary crackhouses, buying their drugs from shady thugs and ammasing huge debts. The beauty of the government is that it wont shoot you down for not following up on your meth bills. I would feel much better if people got their drugs from Donald Trump Industries than the Tijuana Cartel. Donald Trump will sue you, while the cartels will tongue tie you then proceed to slowly decapitate your head.

Blackflag: If cocaine and heroin become legal, Don't you think it will increase school drop out rates and not to mention overdoses ?

Blackflag: Once again to reiterate: if I don't know what's best, the drug industry sure as hell doesn't. Imagine if somebody invented a drug that gave people intense pleasure from voting for a particular political party, and killed them if they didn't. There's simply no reason to constrain choices like that.

Blackflag: Even when legalized, such drugs will increase the overall misery of human beings.
Whenever we humans have total control over our own lives, we often end up making horrible choices that we regret. What is the point in being free whenever you are absolutely miserable?

Blackflag: People do drugs regardless of legalization.
Sorry, but the stats don't support that. Drug use invariably increases with legalization. The message we should be giving people is "don't do drugs, drugs will ruin your life" because that's what's best for society. If murder was legal, more people would die, too. Laws are incentive reward systems, where freedom is the reward for responsibilities that being a member of society gives you.

RXR.: I do not support legalizing tobacco or alchohol for children