The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Blackflag:
I have no problem believing that God exists outside of Time.

He doesn't have a beginning, therefore nobody needed to create Him.

That sounds like an answer to me. Of course you can know the answer to something without understanding it from a human perspective.

Blackflag: I am very glad that you've notice something that make this thread a lot to talk about. Especially the God of the Bible. Not the god that are preached by other religions that says they are of God.


FYI those questions is not from me. I just encountered those questions to some people that are reading the Bible. Moving forward, Christianity in the Bible is not something that can be summarized in two Sects. The true meaning of Christianity in the Bible is very understandable by simply saying Follower of Christ. The word "Follower" have a very wide meaning, If we are just basing our belief in the Bible.
True Christian belief that God is Personal or Living Entity ( as you mention ), and at the same time that God is Absolute. There are lot of things that represents or embodied ( if I got correct what you mean when you say EMBODIMENT ) of God in the Bible. Christ is One of them, the nature, the Universe, The Bible, etc. All of them are the Evidence of the Creator. An intelligent Creator of Invisible things and Visible things.Even you Stag can confess using your conscience that there is God. And that CONSCIENCE is one of God's manifestation ( not his Personal Being because he is in Heaven, but his Word ) on our being,read Romans 1:20. God is absolute ( Isa. 40:13 ), pure not to be question or doubted, a living entity that ha absolute Power. That is what I am believed in FYI. And BTW Stag Interpretation from Major Churches is not the thing that I cling to. Let the Bible speak itself, Let the Bible interpret what she's trying to pointed out. Our Job is to read and seek and ask for Understanding from the Authority.

I beg to disagree but there is no such thing about Holy Trinity in the Bible. The link to the Father is Christ ( John 14:6 ). Even the Holy Spirit is Subject with Christ (John 15:26 and John 16:7 ). I already stated a thought that not only the Holy Spirit is the Proof about God.

You are correct that God has a Body ( Heavenly Body, not a physical one, because He is Spirit. ) He has Mind but different to what we have ( Isaiah 55:8 ). And He has soul too ( differ from what we have ).

admin: Okay let me say this way since you do have different point of view of asking.


I am wrong when, say like this.....

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." ( Proverbs 14:12 )

Then I am right, if say like this......

"Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."( Romans 3:4 )

olive 2: So... you don't care if you're wrong, basically. Because your "explanation" presupposes God. I'm asking what if this is all just a big waste of time.

olive 2: If you agree with nzlockie's watchmaker argument, how can you preclude other gods?

admin: Then, What If I am right, Then this not just a big waste of time admin. That is not presupposes or assuming God. That is what the Bible said FAITH!

nzlockie: Maybe you forgot the word in the Bible that God knows what is Good and what is Evil ( Bad ). God's Justice falls in two category, whether if it is Good or Bad to the recipient. But the Result: Good or Bad to the recipient at the end. In the eye of the Beholder His actions always fall in two, Good or Bad. If you disobey Him, Bad will comes, but if you follow Him wholeheartedly then Good comes. That is what the Bible called right Judgement of God. Remember He is the Lawmaker and a Judge as well. His Laws always resulting two things, Bad and Good. But before "the beginning" it is not like that. In the beginning when there is no yet creations take place. God didn't know SIN, He is innocent about SINS just like a young child don't know what is Good and what is right, even though He is very Powerful, since Love revolves around HIM at that moment, No thought at all that the Angels and Humans do sins. Up until he discovered in the heart of Son of the morning ( Lucifer ) the ambition to be like God. God also gave a chance to that angel to renew his mind, but unfortunately HE CONTINUE SINNING and REBEL to God. Then Judgement come to Satan.
The wisdom about this is, when there is not yet in our Heart, God didn't know what it is. Until you decided and put it in your Heart. He is not the cause of everything, if that is the case He also the cause of sinning of Some, right? That is not a good Idea Nzlockie.

olive 2: Sorry mate, you are wrong and your logic about good and bad is flawed.
Reread what I wrote carefully and you'll see what I mean. Good and bad is simply a matter of perspective. To put it another way, every cloud has a silver lining.

Sin is not a positive, is a negative. It's what is left when you take away the holy.
God doesn't sin, because his nature is perfectly holy.
The bible is very clear that God knows our hearts better than we do, and that he knows our thoughts before we think them.

He IS the cause of everything, that's made clear throughout the bible. He doesn't cause sin because sin is not a positive to be caused, its a by product of someone NOT doing the right thing.
WE are given the ability to resist sin so when we fail, that's on us.

nzlockie: God is in Control Nzlockie, He knows what he's doing, whatever you are witnessing now here on Earth whether be Good or Bad, He allow that thing to happen and that is the very interesting part that I am very awe with this God. The reason are He always have a purpose of why it happen. The Bible always have an answer. Look at this statement from Job 1:12, "the LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." God allow Satan to moved Job. And try to read this verse of Luke 22:31 "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. Satan asked God to sift Peter. That is not for the Bad to both character but for their Good. And the result at the end, they both became righteous to God.

olive 2: Read that verse from Job in context. God doesn't "allow" Satan to test Job, He COMMANDS him to.
Big difference. God doesn't allow anything, He causes everything.

From Job's perspective, some of the things that happened to him were pretty bad, but from Gods perspective, they were very good.

nzlockie: Actually the bible says the complete opposite nearly a dozen times. If free will exists than so does allowance.
God clearly did not command satan as well.

If your belief and love in God only exists because God commanded you, then God is being counter productive.

God is commanding me to make you see reason NZlockie.

nzlockie: Oh c'mon mate, allowing means in english dictionary give the necessary time or opportunity for. It is clearly seen in the context that God gave some time to Satan " Behold, all that he hath is in thy power " but command him " only upon himself put not forth thine hand ". I beg to disagree that God want to test Job in this scenario, there's a battle between Good and Evil here that Job unaware of. Job according to God is already tested when he say to Satan this " Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. " I know this one is new to you Mate.

nzlockie: And this one is also new Mate. Do you believe that Satan is already condemn? Of course, whatever He does it is always Bad and Wicked. he is the father of lies. And there will no Good things to come whatever He does. It is always resulting Bad for him. because the Curse of God is upon him. And that Curse is from God, I hope you wont disagree with that. But you know Mate, Satan strategy or actions is also use by God by twisting it into positive for the GOOD of the elect people- to those He loved. According to Romans 8:28 " And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Sin according to bible is negative in perspective, but this negative can be turned positive by God, that is one clever moved of God. And Satan is unaware of. Like the story of Joseph the Dreamer. Hate ( come from Satan ) that put in the heart of his 11 brothers is became an instrument for the better of this elect people.
Just an addition Law brings two result in recipient, a GOOD ( blessings ) and a BAD ( curse ). But God always suggest to obey HIM. Is the Law therefore is for our destructions, God forbid. Paul say, " What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

nzlockie: You are right, God has no power to SIN, God also have weaknesses." He chooses not " is not the best way to apply to HIM, because He really could not, meaning zero possibility. It is IMPOSSIBLE. It is Impossible for God to Lie ( Titus 1:3 ). Because when you say " He chooses not " there is a possibility that HE CAN, He has a CHOICE. But unto God, NO CHOICE at all. Fair enough.

Blackflag: What do you think of this Sovi " .... but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Is it a commandment or not?

olive 2: That is a command, but it is not one in which you are forced to follow. Just as there was no one forcing satan to test Job.

olive 2: (Can't reply to both of you so I'm also tagging @Sovi in this one)

Guys regarding the story of Job - read the text. God clearly commands Satan.
Satan claims that the only reason Job is so righteous is because God favours him. He claims that if God were to curse him instead of blessing him, Job would soon curse God. God goes one step further. He tells Satan to go and do his worst, with the exception of killing him.

A couple of points to consider when reading this passage in context.

1. God knows the future. He knows what the result of this "experiment" will be and he knows that Job's resilience will be great lesson, not only to Job but to millions of Christians experiencing trials.
(it's almost like He PLANNED it this way... conspiratorial wink.)

2. God knows the heart of Man. He designed Job. When GOD tells you that Job is going to be fine no matter what happens, you better believe that's the case.

3. Satan knows both of these points. Do you think that Satan really thinks that God is going to be wrong about Job? He's not an idiot. He's knows he's being set up to fail on a public scale here, but there's nothing he can do about it. When God commands, even Satan has to obey. Again, this is seen throughout the Bible.

This is basically Kobe Bryant having a little private moan to Michael Jordan that the only reason he's considered the best of all time is because he never had any real competition. Then King MJ calls him on it and says, "ok buddy, me and you, one on one, live streaming audience of millions."
UhOh - Kobe is on the path to a public humiliation here. Do you really think he wants to do it? Don't you think he'd back out now if he could?

The important context to hold here is that both God and Satan know that this is a forgone conclusion. There is no question about what the result will be.


To go one step further, this story is the perfect illustration for people who argue good vs bad. Roof collapsing and killing your kids.
Bad right? Wrong.
That tragic event in Job's life, and the way he handled it, has been used to comfort and strengthen the faith of millions of people throughout the ages. I have no doubt that it also strengthened his friends that came to talk with him during the book. And that's only one instance of a positive coming from death.
Think about it, it's not hard to find lots of positive effects from the death of someone, even a loved one.

"Good" and "Bad" are two sides of the same coin. And the Bible claims in several places that they both come from God.

olive 2: And there will no Good things to come whatever He does.

In case it's not clear from my previous reply - I disagree with this. In the story of Job, Satan does many things and God uses all of these events for a net positive result.

Think of punishing your body by forcing it to exercise. At the time, it seems pointless and painful, but the end result is that you get a stronger body. So was it really "punishment"?

nzlockie: And there will no Good things to come whatever He does. It is always resulting Bad " FOR HIM ". I guess you forgot to put the context " FOR HIM "

Nzlockie : "Satan does many things and God uses all of these events for a net positive result."

With this we are on the same page.