World Online Debate Cup

Pinkie: Fanath... sort-of IDK what's going on with him. He hasn't messaged me saying he's leaving but he hasn't done anything either.

admin: Oh okay.

Fanath is out of the tournament.

Also, I've decided I WILL be accepting sign-ups between rounds. Details on the procedure for this to follow. Debaters who join late will start with no points, which will of course be a significant disadvantage especially as the rounds continue.

If you're interested in joining the tournament between rounds, send me a message with your username, email and that you want to represent edeb8 in the tournament.

First lot of power-paired debates is coming up in a week. You have a full week to prepare, or you can start super early! Here's all the confirmed debates of the tournament so far, proving we have some very interesting competition coming up.

Debates confirmed so far - home sides listed first:

Round 1 (completed

nzlockie (Edeb8) vs CJKAllstar (DDO)
ArcTImes (DDO) vs Rebekah (Edeb8)
Ba'al Hamon (Edeb8) vs Ajabi (DDO)
Krit (Edeb8) vs LogicalLunatic (DDO)
Fanath (DDO) vs bsh1 (DDO)
9spaceking (DDO) vs jh1234l (DDO)

Round 2 (in progress

jh1234l (DDO) vs ArcTImes (DDO)
CJKAllstar (DDO) vs Ajabi (DDO)
bsh1 (DDO) vs cooldudebro (edeb8)
Rebekah (edeb8) vs Ba'al Hamon (edeb8)
Krit (edeb8) vs nzlockie (edeb8)
LogicalLunatic (DDO) vs 9spaceking (DDO)

Round 3 (upcoming

Ajabi (DDO) vs ArcTImes (DDO)
9spaceking (DDO) vs nzlockie (Edeb8)
bsh1 (DDO) vs Krit (Edeb8)
Rebekah (Edeb8) vs CJKAllstar (DDO)
jh1234l (DDO) vs Ba'al Hamon (Edeb8)
cooldudebro (Edeb8) vs LogicalLunatic (DDO)

Particularly interested in seeing the top 3 seeded debates in that draw - really a strong build up and a lot of exciting edeb8 vs ddo action.

admin: How come ajabi and I have zero points?
Both of us had eligible people voting for us, and even if the argument was that our opponents conceded, shouldn't we both get at least five points for the bye?

nzlockie: Not sure where you get 5 from. A bye is worth a win with 0 points, as bsh1 also received. I felt this was the most fair way to handle the situation, as I don't see why somebody should be penalized for not being able to start their debate, over and above somebody whose opponent quits during the debate.

admin: I got it from this: " if there are an odd number of debaters in the tournament overall, the lowest ranked debater in the tournament gets a bye for the round, that counts as a "home" win with 5 points. " - which is the only place where a bye is mentioned.

So when someone concedes after starting the debate, especially in my case where my opponent did actually make an argument, all votes awarded just don't count?

nzlockie: Oh flip you're right, going to go update the table now...

nzlockie: OK updated.

I do personally think this is a bit unfair, as with the scaling this puts Ajabi in #1 ahead of ArcTimes, even though ArcTimes had to fight tooth and nail for their placing and Ajabi didn't really fight at all. But oh well, rules are rules. Next time I'll see if I can revise this.

I'll update the round 3 match-ups in a moment.

admin: Agreed. Maybe the scaling shouldn't apply to byes. It's tricky. I do think it's unfair that a forfeit effectively penalises the person who WAS willing to debate though.
Maybe the person who forfeits should receive a deduction in addition to the loss?

Personally I think next time id just run with a knockout tournament. Gets rid of all these issues.

nzlockie: It doesn't really penalize them to get 0 speaker points. It just means winning by default is ranked lower than winning not by default in most cases. Which I think, personally, is fair.

Also, new r3 match-ups will be:

Ajabi (DDO) vs 9spaceking (DDO)
Krit (Edeb8) vs nzlockie (Edeb8)
bsh1 (DDO) vs ArcTImes (DDO)
Rebekah (Edeb8) vs CJKAllstar (DDO)
jh1234l (DDO) vs Ba'al Hamon (Edeb8)
cooldudebro (Edeb8) vs LogicalLunatic (DDO)

admin: Rematch with me and krit!

admin: I think it's fair that winning through forfeits is ranked lower, however, given that the points may factor quite heavily, it makes it unfortunate for someone who, through no fault of their own, happens to have uncompleted debates.
Taken to an extreme, it gives you a way to "hurt" your opponent if you feel like your case has been lost anyway. Obviously I'd hope that would never be the case but you know...

Oops, posted early.
What I meant to say was that nobody wants to see forfeits. They suck. Obviously in a knockout tournament, the problem resolved itself, but in this style it's not as bad.
Maybe something to look at would be to penalise them further.

I'd like to claim my win Admin. Since my partner, "has avoided the debate" I can now be awarded my free win. I sent him a message the first day of the match up and to this moment he has not responded.

nzlockie: Sorry I'm late sending out the topics!!!

I don't think the points factor that heavily. They matter a lot more in the earlier rounds but in the later rounds they become increasingly insignificant.

Some interesting stats based on the results from the first two rounds (round 3 is currently in progress, and there are 5 rounds altogether

> DDO is currently beating edeb8 for the intersite title by a very slim margin of 6.9 to 7.2 (lower is better). Due to a number of dropouts from DDO, however, this lead will be extremely difficult to maintain as the rounds progress.

> The top six debaters have been the same in both of the first rounds. Tournament favorite bsh1 remains strong at #4, just ahead of 9spaceking and nzlockie. ArcTlmes and Ajabi are virtually tied for 2nd place, with Ajabi ahead only on the fourth tiebreak (!). Krit from edeb8 leads the field by an incredibly slim margin of 2 points on the second tiebreak.

> The tournament field is still far from settled: at the end of round 2, LogicalLunatic rose several places on the standings despite losing his debate, and yet still dropped out of the competition. Conversely some debaters, such as Ajabi, actually went down on the standings despite winning their debates.

> The topics in this competition have been highly varied and interesting, encompassing speed limits, abortion (x2), circumcision, Christianity, evolution, drug testing, separation of church and state, the Falkland Islands, rap battling, organ procurement, and single-sex education.

> Despite a few very good votes, the tournament as a whole is lacking in high-quality judgments. In round 2 Krit rose to the top of the table off a single vote where the RFD was literally "I think Krit proved the Falkland Islands didn't belong to Britain. Tell me if I'm wrong."

> There has been a weak but noticeable centralization effect on the odds voting, with pundits less likely to go for one debater by massive margins than in earlier rounds. This is despite a reduced interest in odds voting as the tournament continues.

Remember that you can keep up with the latest standings and tournament updates at http://www.edeb8.com/tournament

admin: Yep, got to say, that vote by spaceking was pretty disappointing. We both worked really hard on that topic and to have it decided like that doesn't really fill me with much enthusiasm to commit that much effort again. In this tourney.