Gender

nzlockie: Because you won't believe how many times I've deferred to the male gender by default, and my opponent took offense. My plan is to implement an "other" category for anyone who does not wish to be referred to as "he" or "she". There's a few messages EDEB8 sends out (can't remember off-hand) that also make use of pronouns. I think it's worth clarifying that this is not meant to be an exhaustive description of a user's gender identity, but merely a short indication to other users as to how they prefer to be addressed.

nzlockie: Please don't make this like Facebook with 51 options of other!

Pinkie: (Pleadings to do with the site should be addressed to me or somebody who can actually do something about it)

nzlockie: Your "socket or plug" analysis directly disagrees with all scientific and social studies in this area. I agree that there should be an option to hide sex and gender. That being said, switching to "sex" is even worse because it denies the significance gender, which is really the only possibly piece of relevant information, in such a way that seems to demand a male-female binary because intersex and transgender persons are too inconvenient. Saying that sex is more important than gender is a slap in the face to transgender persons. Additionally, the inconvenience of adding a few more options is nothing, but accepting person is huge. If you feel it is inconvenient and confusing to add a very few words to a list, imagine how they feel?

admin: An "other" category continues to isolate and estrange person who do are intersexual, transgender, genderqueer, etc. By placing "male" and "female" you are suggesting that they are 'normal,' whereas those who are not part of this category are "abnormal," "deviant," or "weird." Additionally, you give these persons no opportunity to express themselves.

However, they are normal, though they are a minority. You would be preventing them from having a home on this site by forcing them to hide in an "other" category.

nzlockie: Not everyone has the same benefits as you, ma'am.

drafterman: benefits?

nzlockie: Yes, ma'am

kbub: I genuinely asked the question to Admin about why we needed to have this piece of information listed at all. He explained it as being primarily so that we don't offend people by using the incorrect pronoun - I'm totally happy with that answer.

So that being the case, logically, there are only two pronouns open to us in the english language; "Male" and "Female". We could insert a gender neutral one in there as well if we had to, although in English that might get a little tricky.

If the purpose is to establish the pronoun one would like to be addressed with, why do we need a list that explains WHY I like to be addressed with "Mister"?
Surely it doesn't matter how I got there - I just want to be addressed in the masculine?

As for not giving people a chance to "express themselves"?! This is a debating site where people are encouraged to express their opinions! There are teams and groups to create and join, they can choose colours to write in and pictures to represent themselves... exactly how many ways does the Admin need to give a person to express themselves?

drafterman: lol, what benefits? My Sharpie Twin? "coz you can just buy those...

nzlockie: Forcing people who have a normal gender (transgender, genderqueer, intersex are all normal) identity into an "other" category denies them the ability to belong. I sympathize with your pronoun use point. If the entire point of gender in the first place is for pronoun use, then the question should be simply: "what set of pronouns do you prefer: (he, him), (she, her), (s/he, her/him), (they, them)?"

drafterman: Well played, drafterman

admin: I sympathize with your pronoun use point. If the entire point of gender in the first place is for pronoun use, then the question should be simply: "what set of pronouns do you prefer: (he, him), (she, her), (s/he, her/him), (they, them)."

kbub: Except that "which set of pronouns do you prefer" doesn't fit on the sign up form. Just saying "pronoun" could also be confused. I wonder if I should possibly just add an explanatory note, like the notes I added to setting up a debate, to inform users of the purpose of the field.

nzlockie: "I just want to be addressed in the masculine?"

Why? I thought all this was "PC gone mad."

drafterman: When I said, "I" I was speaking theoretically.

It was a simply improvised scene in which the lone player, ("Man with a Hat") is bemoaning the lengthy options available for him to select from when applying for his Edeb8 profile. Many of them are new terms for him and he just wants to get his application filled in so he can go play. In this brief glimpse of frustration we see him ask the rhetorical question of the universe in general, "Surely it doesn't matter how I got there - I just want to be addressed in the masculine?"

For me personally, I am a male and given an option would feel most comfortable with masculine pronouns, but it certainly doesn't bother me if you want to use a different term for me. Sex and Gender hasn't been an issue for me personally, I can certainly understand how it affects some people though, which is why I support the inclusion of the field now that Admin's explained what it is there for.

The "PC gone mad" bit still stands. When I'm wanting to find out what pronoun to use when addressing you, that's all I want to know. I think that when there are sensitive issues, you're often best to err on the side of being more generalised than being too specific. Case in point is naming people in an oscar acceptance speech. Miss someone out and they're hurt. Just saying thanks to all who supported me and everyone's happy.
If somebody is going to get sincerely hurt and offended because their sex/gender is not listed and they're forced to select "other" - then why take the risk of a big list?

Ultimately everyone is going to fall into one of two categories when it comes to how they'd like to be addressed.

admin: How about: "Preferred self-identifiers?" or "Preferred pronouns?" or "Preferred pronoun identifiers?" or "Pronoun preference?" The note seems like a good idea.

nzlockie: "When I'm wanting to find out what pronoun to use when addressing you, that's all I want to know." I admire that. "Ultimately everyone is going to fall into one of two categories when it comes to how they'd like to be addressed."

nzlockie: My last reply cut off: "When I'm wanting to find out what pronoun to use when addressing you, that's all I want to know." I admire that. "Ultimately everyone is going to fall into one of two categories when it comes to how they'd like to be addressed." That's not quite true ("their" makes three, "s/he" make four).

kbub: I left the neutral off because you said earlier that people would be offended being put into a gender neutral category because we're insinuating they are weird, abnormal etc etc.