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Are Muslims on the true path?

(PRO)
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(CON)
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culturedcultured (PRO)

Before I state my points, I just want to give a brief definition of Islam. Islam is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion; meaning that it teaches of only one God. It also teaches that Muhammad is a messenger of God. It is the world’s second largest religion, after Christianity, with nearly 2 billion Muslims worldwide. 


There are different types of Muslims each with slightly different beliefs. The two main branches of Islam are Sunni and Shi’a. The general difference in practice is that Sunni Muslims rely on the Sunnah and Shi’a Muslims rely on their ayatollahs (an important religious leader). 


Personally, I grew up in a half Christian and half Muslim household, and I’m Atheist, so I truly have no bias towards this statement. However, having studied Islam, there are a lot of important things I learned about the unique religion. 


Prior to stating my full answer, first I want to explain my interpretation of this question. What does it mean by the “true path”? And is there really a “true” path to life in itself? My understanding of this question is, are they on the right path? Doing the right thing? 


I myself, don’t believe that religion is a majorly important thing in life. I don’t believe that everything should be controlled by outdated beliefs. But do I respect their beliefs? Yes, I do. So, normally I would say they aren’t on the right path. And that they aren’t living life correctly, to live by these rules that restrict their life. 


But then, I tried to think about it with a slightly different perspective. What does it truly mean by “true” path anyway? And is there even one by definition? There are no set rules to life. Everyone lives it differently, and chooses to restrict themselves less/more than others. Some are adventurous, love risks, and don’t like being tied down.


Others, on the other hand, prefer maybe to stay at home, work a full career, and have a normal life. Does that mean because one lives different to another, they are leading a path that is not true? In this context, trying to label one life as “true” and the other as “untrue” doesn’t work. Which I find is the same, and can be applied, to religion. 


With this, my point is, how can a path be determined if it’s “true” or not? Just by how one lives their lives? Which is why I think that yes, they are. I believe that not only Muslims, but everyone is on the true path. Who am I, or who is anyone, to devalue a path by calling it “untrue”? Just because mine, or their own beliefs do not align with it?


My personal definition of a “true” life is living for the journey, not the destination. I want to live a life I can enjoy and be happy in. Which is why I say Muslims are on the true path, as is anyone else. If they enjoy practicing the beliefs of Islam, and they are happy and comfortable with the religion, why label it as an “untrue” path? And what is the criteria of a “true” path?


Maybe I am repeating my point a bit often, but I just want to make it clear exactly what I mean. Saying Muslims are on the true path does not mean I am saying that anyone who practices another religion to Islam is living an “untrue” life, it means that whatever makes them happy, is the true path. 


In conclusion, I agree with the statement that Muslims are on the right path. Not because I agree with their practices, but because I see how religion can make them happy. And to me, a “true” life is a happy one, as is with “paths”. 



Return To Top | Posted:
2020-04-19 10:03:11
| Speak Round
royalsonroyalson (CON)

I am grateful for the opportunity to participate in this debate and commend my opponent for agreeing to engage me on this topic and providing her opening statement. Although it is not my intention to insult or offend anybody, I recognize that I am stepping on sacred ground, and that my arguments will challenge some very cherished beliefs. I ask that those who oppose my position, to consider the arguments presented on both sides and prayerfully weigh the evidence.

SURAH 1:6 says – Guide us to the straight path.


SURAH 2:213 says that  Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path.


I am using the terms true path and straight path interchangeably, as I believe the straight path mentioned in the Qur'an is considered to be the true path. 
 

Throughout the debate, I will quote from the Qur'an and the Bible. The translations I shall appeal to are Sahih International and the King James Version respectively, unless stated otherwise.


As an overview, my opening presentation is structured in three parts:

1. Unpacking the terms of debate by breaking down the title for understanding.
2. Establish why I do not think Muslims have a good reason to believe that Islam is the true path.

3. Present what a true path should look like.
 


 

I. UNDERSTANDING THE TITLE OF THE DEBATE

Firstly, Let us turn our attention to the title of the debate – Are Muslims on the true path? 


Although there are a number of different sects with varying beliefs. However, this presentation looks at the core beliefs shared by the majority.

The next part of the title of debate concerns the true path.

By true path, I am presupposing that truth is objective and not a merely subjective or contingent upon culture, time or personalities, but transcends time, culture and circumstance.


Notice, the title does not say *A* true path but *THE* true path. In other words, that there is only one path that is divinely inspired, and that no other path would be acceptable. This mirrors what is spoken of the Qur'an in the following verses:

 

SURAH 3 VERSE 19

“Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah, then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account. 
 


SURAH 3 VERSE 85:


And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

Hence, the religion itself does not consider itself as one of many acceptable paths, but the only one acceptable to Allah.” 
Thus – For my opponent to satisfy the burden of the affirmative position in this debate, she will need to prove that Islam alone is the true path for mankind to receive a favorable destiny in the age to come.


II. THERE ARE NO GOOD REASONS TO BELIEVE THAT ISLAM IS THE TRUE PATH

 

Now I am going to turn to the second part of my introductory word, namely That I contend that there are no good reasons to believe that Islam is the true path.

 
I have ten contentions: 

 

A. Islam is historically insufficient.

B. Tauhid is rationally insufficient.

C. Muhammad is prophetically insufficient.

D. The Qur'an is explanatorily insufficient.

E. Its connection with previous prophets is insufficient.

F.  Its connection with previous scriptures is theologically insufficient.

G. Allah is metaphysically insufficient.

H.The Pillars of Islam are practically insufficient.

I. Islamic practices are morally insufficient.
J. Allah as a guide is wholly insufficient.

  

Let us consider them one by one. Any that I cannot address in this round, I will endeavour (Lord willing) to cover in the next round.

 

A. Islam is historically insufficient.

If Islam were the true path, we would expect it to be consistently, historically accurate. This is not the case. 

The most obvious example is with regards to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Surah 4:157 says that they did not kill Him nor crucified Him but was made only to appear so.

Among the various theories in Islam, the two most prominent theories for Christ's death upon the cross are that:
1. Jesus was substituted on the cross by someone else.
2. Jesus fainted on the cross but didn't die on it


It is interesting that this verse says that those who differ are full of doubt with only conjecture to follow, yet it is the Muslims who have differing theories where Christians follow the one view, that Jesus Christ died on the cross.

On the one hand, you have the ancient historical affirmation by
Josephus, Sutonious, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Mara bar Serapion and Lucian of Samosata. These are all hostile witnesses. On the other hand, you have the wide spectrum of historical and New Testament Scholarship, which testifies that one of the most certain facts of history and of Jesus Christ Himself, was the event of His crucifixion under Pontius Pilate.

Other historical blunders of the Qur'an, include the insertion of writings that came from Gnostic non-christian sources to be scripture, and  the confusion of Mary the mother of Jesus, and Mariam the sister of Aaron and Moses. They are separated by thousands of years, and yet the Qur'an mistakenly treats them as contemporaneous.


B. TAUHID IS RATIONALLY INSUFFICIENT


 

Perhaps the greatest weakness of Islam, is its core doctrine of Tauhid – often equated with Monotheism. Tauhid is made up of three categories:

1. Oneness of Being

2. Oneness  of Worship 

3. Oneness  of Allah's names and Attributes 

 

The third category of Tauhid – (Tauhid al-Asmaa-was-sifaat) states that Allah's names and attributes cannot be compared with creation. They are completely other. Any attempt to find some kind of correlation or consistency between the two is frowned upon as Shirk – A blasphemous attribution of things to Allah that do not befit His majesty.


With this in mind, Allah's most basic attribute is His being one – Ahad. However, this attribute turns out to be anything but basic. What does it mean for Allah to be one? It cannot mean singular in nature – since there are many instances of this in creation. For example, there is ONE pencil on the table.

 

This problem extends to all of Allah's attributes. We might picture what mercy looks like, but it cannot be anything like Allah's mercy. Thus His attributes become unknowable.

Thus Allah becomes a being of unknowable attributes. The apostle Paul pointed out to the Athenians in Acts 17:23 that they worshiped an unknown God. Yet in Islam, not only is Allah unknown, but He is unknowable. Why believe in an unknowable God?


C. MUHAMMAD IS PROPHETICALLY INSUFFICIENT.


 

While Muslims often like to claim that Muhammad is the “Prophet sent like Moses” in Deuteronomy 18:18, it is clear that he fails the criteria established in this chapter:

 

 This passage shows that the Lord would raise up a prophet from among the bretheren of the Levites. 

 STRIKE ONE: Muhammad was not an Israelite.

In verse 20, the prophet who speaks a word which he has not commanded him to speak shall die.

STRIKE TWO: Muhammad spoke the Satanic Verses, which obviously God did not command him to speak. (Tabari 6:111) - “I fabricated things against God and imputed to Him words which He has not spoken”

STRIKE THREE: Muhammad spoke did not speak in the name of YHWH but another God.  (Surah 1:1). Muhammad should be thrown out as a false prophet.


In my next round, I will endeavor to present further details as to why I believe Muslims are not on the true path, and eventually discuss what I believe the true path really is.

I apologize for the delay for the posting of my opening statement. I had originally prepared a statement that I discovered went beyond the maximum character count (approx 28,000 characters instead of 8,000).

I look forward to my opponent's response. Thank you.





Return To Top | Posted:
2020-04-21 20:38:33
| Speak Round
culturedcultured (PRO)
I just want to thank my opponent for responding and giving their perspective on this. This is my first debate on the website and I picked this one for no specific reason, just because it was the first one I saw. So I apologise if my knowledge is limited.

Anyways, back onto the debate. In your reply you stated, “she will need to prove that Islam alone is the true path for mankind to receive a favorable destiny in the age to come” referring to me, after mentioning a quote from the Qur’an where it states that anyone not following Islam is on the wrong path. 

While I am not Muslim and do not follow any Islamic beliefs, your point is valid and ultimately, I hope to prove, in some way, that Islam *is* the right path. 

In your argument you made several good points, but many of which I found flawed. You mentioned parts of the Qur’an are insufficient, and for it to be the true path, it has to be consistent. 

Which, I disagree with. I disagree that something has to be consistent for it to be “true”. And I can find many situations to apply this to. And so, majority of this post will be covering the reasons for the inconsistency of the Qur’an

Inconsistency in the Qur’an

While you gave two beliefs contradictory to each-other, you did not state why. That’s because there are many reasons. Firstly, it took 23 years to complete. How is this relevant? Imagine being 10 and you’re telling a story about something that just happened. Chances are majority of the details are right. Now, recount the same story 23 years later. You’ll find that it’s not easy, you will make up lies to fill in gaps, you’ll skip over parts, add extra details that weren’t there, etc. I believe this to be the same with the Qur’an. And remember, it is only one man who wrote the Qur’an - Muhammad pbuh. To write the entire story of such a long time period and recite it 100% is near enough impossible alone. 

Inconsistency in the Qur’an (2)

Another reason I believe there is inconsistency is because of who wrote it. One man did. If we compare it to the Bible, the Bible had 40 authors and still has many noticeable contradictions and inconsistencies; and they have 40x as many people who helped to write it. So how can we expect a book written by one man to be entirely true if a book written by forty is not? To expect someone to be able to recount the exact same idea for 23 years is close to, if not, impossible. The brain can forget things that were thoughts in your head just two seconds ago, so to expect someone to never repeat or contradict things in the span of 23 years is unrealistic. 

Inconsistency in the Qur’an (3)

My third and final reason that I believe justifies the inconsistencies is language. The Qur’an was written in Arabic, originating from Mecca. Directly translating Arabic quotes into English can be misleading and often give off the wrong meaning. While I am not saying this is the case for every quote, I am saying it is a possibility that the meaning of the quotations you used are quite possibly not what was originally intended and written. While this is the same for many languages, it is especially true for Arabic, which is one of the worlds hardest languages. It is also possible that while being translated, there was no “direct” translation, meaning there’s no word-to-word English version; resulting in a simplified version. Something which once meant something entirely different has had its meaning chance. Hence me saying earlier - things get lost in translation. 

Why should we trust the Qur’an?

Like all religions, it is a choice to believe in Islam. Nobody can force anyone to believe what they believe. But, how do we know that Islam is the true path? We don’t. That’s the whole point of having beliefs. We can’t know for sure, but as humans, we do our best and believe in .. what we believe is right. The same reason why people follow Christianity, people follow Islam. 

In conclusion, I can’t force opinions on anybody. What I say is at give-or-take value. But personally, I believe Islam is one of the most peaceful and beautiful religions. This is why I think that it is the true path, and that while other religions exist, this is the “true” one. 

Of course, I have no place to call any other religion “false”, but debates are all about opinions, and I’ve stated mine. 

I just want to apologise for the late reply, but thank you for reading it anyways. 


Return To Top | Posted:
2020-04-24 14:52:41
| Speak Round
royalsonroyalson (CON)
I would like to thank my opponent for her first rebuttal. Because my laptop power cable broke, I have to type everything on my mobile. As such, I wont be able to write as extensively in my rebuttal as I'd hoped but I'll try my best to address the points raised. 

1. You disagreed with my view that a true path needs to be consistent. 

 A path is supposed to guidance someone to go in the correct direction. However if such a path is inconsistent, then it will bring in confusion and in some cases, conflict. If a religion claims to be the true path, and demands loyalty and submission, it had better withstand scrutiny. If it fails, then it has no business claiming divine authority to compel people to live under its standards and regulations. 

2. My opponent conceded that Islam has inconsistencies and suggests that this is not a problem. Without appealing to opinion, I shall underscore what the Qur'an itself has to say about this matter. 

 Surah 4:82 - Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah,
they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

 According to this verse, if we find inconsistencies then it means the book did not come from
Allah. 

 Yet in Surah 4:136 we read,” O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His messenger and the
Scripture which He hath revealed unto His messenger, and the Scripture which He revealed
aforetime. Whoso disbelieveth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His
messengers and the Last Day, he verily hath wandered far astray.” 

 Here, we see a command that requires, among other things, belief in Allah and the Quran. But if we can show that the book is not from Allah, as per the discrepancies, then it is not worthy of belief. And not believing in the Qur'an or Allah equates to being far astray here in surah 4:136.

 This way of looking at discrepancies as no big deal, goes against what the Qur'an itself teaches. Keep in mind that people who apostacize from Islam can be threatened with ostracism and even death:
Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017). So it’s not a matter of people being happy with Islam. They are forced under its rule. 

 You mentioned reasons for discrepancies. That may be ok if it were a secular book that simply needs some revisions. However this is a book claiming to be the very word of God. That has far reaching implications, especially with the application of sharia law. Thd quran has faulty reasoning that if a book was not from Allah, one would find MANY discrepancies.
Two immediate problems with this: 

A. If it is the word of God it should have ZERO discrepancies, without giving room for a few discrepancies or even just one.

 B. Many books exist today that have no discrepancies. That does NOT make them the word of God.
Reasons my opponent gave for the errors: 

1. The Quran took 23 years to complete, over which time, it’s easy ho forget details
My Response: if this is the eternal word of Allah, time is not a factor (Allah had eternity past to get it right). The miracle is supposed to be a miracle, confirming the prophet hood of Mohammed. If the “miracle” is flawed, it’s not a miracle. 

 2. A second excuse for the discrepancy is that the bible had help with 50 authors to get it right whereas the quran only had one author.
My Response: actually the more people that are involved in a scriptural compendium, the more difficult it is to harmonize and keep things consistent. With one author, he only has to agree with himself. Actually the ~40 authors lived at different times, continents, cultures, backgrounds with Hebrew, aramaic and Greek texts over ~1600 years without a centralized control of the text. I dispute the idea that the bible is contradictory on the basis of understanding how the manuscript tradition came about.

In any case, being of alleged divine origin and under the guarding and protection of Allah, there should be no reason for its state. 

 3. A third reason given by my opponent is that words in Arabic cannot always be accurately understood in a translated language such as English.
My response: This only exacerbates the problem. Islam teaches that the quran exists on eternal tablets. Since Arabic is a created language and nothing can be like Allahs eternal language, the qur'an in the possession of muslims today cannot compare in style, content, meaning or application to the eternal tablets. Thus it shows the impossibility of serving as a guidance because of the complete mismatch.

FURTHER REASONS I DO NOT BELIEVE ISLAM IS THE TRUE PATH.

D.The Qur'an is explanatorily insufficient.


1. The quran came to Muhammad in the form of a dream that he didnt like - buk 1.1.3: 9.87.111; 6.60.479,480; sirat al rasul Allah by in ishaq.


2. Muhammad said if anyone has a dream they dont like, it is from Satan - Buk 9.87.114


3. Therefore the quran revealed in Muhammads dream at Hira was from Satan.



E. Its connection with previous prophets is insufficient.


1. If anyone does not believe in all of Allah's messengers and books, they have gone far astray (surah 4.136).


2. Muslims are agnostic on the messengers which the quran doesnt mention, e.g. Isaiah and old testament prophet Zechariah. 


3. Therefore, they have gone far astray. Therefore by default, no muslim today is on the true path.





F. Its connection with previous scriptures is theologically insufficient.



 See point above.

G. Allah is metaphysically insufficient


1. Allahs attributes are incomparible to creation.

2. Allah being ONE cannot refer to single in quantity, since such applies to creation.


3. None of Allahs's attributes can be understood.

.

H.The Pillars of Islam are practically insufficient.


1. Islam is built upon the five pillars (buk 1.1.2)


Shahada - jesus will replace Muhammad as the final messenger - effectively make shahada obsolete.


Sawm - no more fasting in paradise. Sawm becomes obsolete.


Zakat - no more paying  the poor tax in paradise. Zakat becomes obsolete.


Salah - No more praying for guidance (surah1;6) when I paradise. Salah becomes obsolete

No pilgrimage from paradise to mecca. Hajj becomes obsolete.


Bottom line: paradise is a place  where there is no Islam!


I. Islamic practices are morally insufficient.


1. Muhammad taught that a man can beat his wife out of SUSPICION that she MIGHT be unfaithful. (Surah


2. Lying is taught as acceptable in times of war, to save a marriage or protect a relationship.


J. Allah as a guide is wholly insufficient.


In surah 1:_ Allah is praying to another aĺlah for guidance.


If Allah needs to be guided, he cannot himself be a reliable guide.


I shall wrap up here and look forward to my opponent's response. 


Thank you.




Return To Top | Posted:
2020-04-27 09:15:01
| Speak Round


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royalsonroyalson
I will endeavour to get my rebuttal posted. I had my notes on my laptop, then the power adapter died so I'm working with my hobne, a so working on another debate and preparing for a live discussion on Islam in 9 hours, so its pretty chao0tic. Please bear with me.
Posted 2020-04-25 22:22:53
culturedcultured
Thank you. If this topic ever emerges again, I’d love to see your point of view on it.
Posted 2020-04-20 03:57:39
adminadmin
This is a very interesting take pro. I'd love to debate this sometime :)
Posted 2020-04-19 20:38:14
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