dee-em

FYI, if you do it as a reply to my post as opposed to a reply to the thread I get a notification

I know that and it wasn't deliberate. When replying to the last post in a thread, these two buttons...

Well that assumes there's a problem. You're certainly making it out as if there's one.

I think there is for the reasons I gave which you don't appear to contest. It is strange to me that you as admin/mod...

I like the presumption there is no flaw in your argument unless somebody points one out using terms you can understand. That's an interesting kind of critical thinking.

I invite you note the title...

You certainly have addressed it but the reason people (ie all three of us, of different actual beliefs regarding God) keep bringing it up to you is because you haven't adequately understood the actual...

Interesting, as I understand the argument it seems to equate non-contingent with non-existent. I’m not sure I agree.

Not at all. My argument only concerns a non-contingent entity (ie. God) and...

At a certain point you've admitted to me everything is contingent on a non-entity that for some reason doesn't meet the logical standards of your claims. You've called it energy. I've seen legitimate theologians...

Distinct and independent = an entity. You've also stated that an entity that doesn't have the quality of being contingent on something it is made of, will then be indistinguishable from nothing.

No,...

Ha, I see you've made the move too.

In your justification for the first P1, one could argue we are the collection of cells, not that we're contingent on them.

That is just semantics. Could human...

Because otherwise you'd have a contingent entity forever into infinity (not even a circular contingency would satisfy the logical conditions of your argument). That's not possible because infinity is not...

Explain why God must be characterised as an entity but not whatever you define as uncontingent ie the energy at the so-called Big Bang?

I already have. I gave you the definition of the word "entity"...

More like an argument why one premise cannot be true.

I don't believe I have seen such an argument. Telling me that you worry about infinite regression has nothing to do with the truth or otherwise...

As being equivalent because:
God, quarks and the universe are all entities
Your claim is that each is made of something
Your claim is that each one "is" (meaning, exists)
And your claim...

Well I'm not addressing it because I'm not a theist, so I think it's best left to interpretation. I'm more interested in the logic and morals of metaphysics.

Metaphysics has logic and morals?

Well so far I've attacked only the very first premise, that something that exists must be contingent. That's your first premise.

That's not my first premise.

So if something exists that doesn't...

Ultimately there will be SOMETHING that exists but doesn't depend on something else. Otherwise you have an infinite regression.

I used the word ENTITY rather than SOMETHING very deliberately. Are...

I don't think there's any need for "God" but that doesn't inherently disprove God. I'd put the same case back to you: if we don't know how God is made does that mean God cannot exist?

I...

It occurs to me that I should have specified the God I was refuting. The God which I am attempting to prove cannot exist is the intelligent entity responsible for creating the universe, ie. an intelligent...

Everything is contingent on energy. What is energy contingent on? See the problem?

No. I thought I had already answered the question. Energy is contingent on whatever "happened" at the Big...

Well, I hadn't picked up that nuance in what you posted. My apologies. However, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Why discuss hypotheticals based on the validity of the argument if the...

Quarks can be thought of as concentrated energy (like all matter). E = mc^2. Ultimately everything in the universe (including quarks) is contingent on the energy at the Big Bang. Since the Big Bang is...