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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 2:33 PM
admin: That would be moral nihilism, not general nihilism.

Another strike for the anti-philosopher.

Moral nihilism IS general nihilism.

Both concepts and ideas are languages. Set theory is a language in and of itself.

Words exist to describe things.

Social constructs fall into the mold of things that need words to describe them. What is your point?

Oh, so if society believes strongly enough that God exists, that means God actually exists?

There is a popular philosophical basis that says that is the case.

The idea of god is a reality. Read some philosophy on the matter of existence, as there is a common theme in almost all writings.

Isn't a social construct "real" insofar only as it is subjectively experienced?

No.

A social construct exists insomuch as it is subjectively accepted

You have to understand the difference between existence and reality. An idea can exist and still not be apart of reality. That is what social constructs are, because ideas are not substantive.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 2:37 PM
Read this.

Tell me if you understand it.

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/24
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 2:44 PM
Crow:
A social construct exists insomuch as it is subjectively accepted


Correction. Remove the subjectively.
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JoMomma
By JoMomma | Jul 28 2016 3:07 PM
Crow: I understand it to mean that the human conscience can be virtually extinguished, when placed in circumstances like the comic depicts. It is the effect that powerful regimes can have on individuals, and yet the individual is not to be blamed for being reduced to believing that nothing holds any significance after being through such experiences. It is a very disturbing comic, and all the more reason to continue to rise against the powers who carelessly destroy the meaningfulness of life for their economic interests.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:10 PM
JoMomma: The railroad example is actually a statement on existence, but your interpretation is legitimate too.
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admin
By admin | Jul 28 2016 3:16 PM
Crow: No it's not. That's like saying all forms of capitalism have free markets.

My point is that you're reducing, in your word, "most" things to a language set, having no reality outside of that. A nihilist - as most nihilists I know understand it - does not reject their own ideas, but rather than an objective reality exists.

You basically just proved that social constructs are not real, directly contradicting your claim in your previous post. They exist, yes, but they are not real.

I understand the comic and respectfully disagree with one bit of it.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:22 PM
admin: No it's not. That's like saying all forms of capitalism have free markets.

It really is the case.

A nihilist - as most nihilists I know understand it - does not reject their own ideas, but rather than an objective reality exists.

:P

Are you sure you are not referring to Solipsism ?

If you are talking about Nihilism, then you are seriously misrepresenting the philosophy. You should share some philosophy, preferably from books.


My point is that you're reducing, in your word, "most" things to a language set, having no reality outside of that.


Because most of reality is a series of social constructs.



You basically just proved that social constructs are not real, directly contradicting your claim in your previous post.

I conflate terms a lot.

Constructs exist, but they are not substantively real. That is my definitive position.

I understand the comic and respectfully disagree with one bit of it.

Please explain what you understood about the comic. I shared it for a reason.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:23 PM
Crow: Because most of reality is a series of social constructs.


Bleh, I meant to say *perceived reality.

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admin
By admin | Jul 28 2016 3:24 PM
JoMomma: yet the individual is not to be blamed for being reduced to believing that nothing holds any significance after being through such experiences

This is a little off-topic but personally I disagree with this in the instance of soldiers. The comic depicts a murder taking place as a voluntary action. I've said it on numerous occasions on this site, but many people would rather die themselves than kill somebody else, even in self-defense.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:27 PM
admin: The comic depicts a murder taking place as a voluntary action.

Killing is a personal choice

Soldiers pull the trigger on their guns everyday. So did this soldier in the comic.

I've said it on numerous occasions on this site, but many people would rather die themselves than kill somebody else, even in self-defense.

That truly is naive.

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admin
By admin | Jul 28 2016 3:33 PM
Crow: Personally, of course, I have to disagree on principle. Even ideas are part of an objective reality.

Are you sure you are not referring to Solipsism?
Yes. You can reduce yourself to nothing but not the idea of nothing to nothing. That creates problems in set theory.

Please explain what you understood about the comic. I shared it for a reason.
I understood everything except the whole bit about lives being connected by memory. That seems to fail to conflate space and time to me. Because the time something happens is observer-relative.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:39 PM
admin: Personally, of course, I have to disagree on principle. Even ideas are part of an objective reality.

A perceived reality.

If you are not careful, you might just end up affirming that God is a reality.

Yes. You can reduce yourself to nothing but not the idea of nothing to nothing. That creates problems in set theory.


Then that isn't nihilism....

Like I have been trying to tell you....

I understood everything except the whole bit about lives being connected by memory. That seems to fail to conflate space and time to me. Because the time something happens is observer-relative.

So again you didn't explain what you actually understood. It leaves me to believe you didn't understand it.

I was hoping that could explain it better than me, but nothing ever seems to get through to the Anti-Philosopher.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:42 PM
The memories are the easier thing to understand.

We see life as one continuous existence, and not as the individual parts that it actually is. The memories are the building blocks of life, just as the planks and steel were the building blocks of the railroad.

The life is as much of a construct as the railroad. On that basis, our entire reality is a series of constructions.
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admin
By admin | Jul 28 2016 3:44 PM
Crow: No because an idea is a physical connection between brain cells. That connection exists.

I could probably write about 4 paragraphs about what I understood, but I'd rather hear your point. I'm pretty sure their railway analogy is based entirely on a linear time model though that's about 200 years out of date.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:46 PM
The saying "our loved ones will live on in our memories" is actually grounded in a lot of logic.

The life is a construct, It isn't the flesh and bone that was the source of our love. It was the idea of that individual.

This is why it is so inhumane to reject sorrow, since abandoning sorrow is the ultimate taking of a life.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:48 PM
admin: No because an idea is a physical connection between brain cells. That connection exists.

Yet there is an actual distinction between the thought and the flesh that stores it.

The railroad was in reality just wood and steel.

Are you getting the picture yet? Our perception of reality is a series of constructions.
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admin
By admin | Jul 28 2016 3:52 PM
Crow: No because a railroad is defined not by its materials but by it's purpose. Pollution is a real thing because it harms the planet, even though somebody with no knowledge of how ecology works might see only some atmospheric gases or something.
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JoMomma
By JoMomma | Jul 28 2016 3:53 PM
admin: Soldiers are programmed because they are around so much killing that they become immune to it. They are trained and programmed for missions. The purpose of the comic was to show how meaningless the things we value and take for granted can become if we are exposed and expected to partake in constant bloodshed while under the command of military control. The tragedy is not only the loss of life of those who were killed in combat, but equally the loss of meaning of life to the soldiers who shed blood under the command of their superiors.
Crow
By Crow | Jul 28 2016 3:59 PM
admin: No because a railroad is defined not by its materials but by it's purpose.

The purpose is a concept, hence why the railroad is a social construct.

It is only wood and steel, but we had a concept and attached it to an idea.

Life is constructed. Reality is constructed. That does not mean social constructions should be ignored.

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admin
By admin | Jul 28 2016 4:07 PM
JoMomma: Even so the research shows that roughly half of soldiers intentionally miss their targets. Many others are attempted to be coerced into fighting and refuse. Some have been tortured and killed for not fighting and that didn't deter them. While many other patriots here celebrate the army, I'm at home celebrating pacifist activists - people who went through the same "programming" and had the sense to stand up for what's right.

Here's what I value - peace & understanding. Military conflict takes nothing away from that and never can.
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