Did the Universe begin to exist?

nzlockie: Great, I'm glad I didn't misinterpret anything.

nzlockie: Genuine question. Do you believe the Bible also tells you things you don't need to know?

admin: Hmmm. I guess I'd answer that one with a no.

The only part that statement that would give me pause would be some of the stuff that's in there as evidence for creation or examples of God's character - some of that stuff might not be needed for some people, whereas other people really need all that stuff in order to make up their minds.

I have a very good friend who is not bothered by the fact that he can't argue apologetics with anyone, the fact that he can't explain some apparent contradictions doesn't shake his faith at all. He accepts that he can't process some issues with his human understanding and so for him that's fine.
He would NEED some parts of Bible much less than I would for example.

Pinkie: And I'M glad that you still managed to find a way to get the last comment.

I anxiously wait to see what the reply to THIS comment will be. I'm hoping it involves a picture.

nzlockie: So could you please explain to me how anyone in the modern world needs to know Numbers 1:44, which states who counted the first census of Israel? Like, if Bill Nye the science guy had literally travelled back in time specifically to count that census, would it have made an iota of a difference really?

admin: I see what you're saying and I think so...
All the history recorded in the Bible is the history of Israel. Israel is God's chosen nation and plays an important part in representing us and our relationship with God.
Some of the specific detail that some of the history goes into becomes relevant when matching biblical people and events to archaeology. Some of it may be relevant for us today, some of it may have been more relevant for people who were around at the time those events happened or were recorded. Some of it may not be relevant to us yet because those sections of history haven't been verified with hard evidence yet.

The specific verse you've mentioned appears to me to be giving the reader the assurance that the job of counting the men of Israel was done with a degree of thought. Not some arbitrary number that one person made up as a "best-guess" but something a little more solid.

I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting that every word in the Bible has a special super natural significance - that can be a dangerous road to take. When the Bible lays out the dimensions of the Temple - that's all it is. There's no reasons to suspect that the numbers given hold some supernatural significance and the key to unlocking some deep mystery. It's just dimensions.

Is that what you were meaning?

nzlockie: I'm not saying that it doesn't convey some information. I mean, there are verses in the New Testament that I could point to which are the same, such as the verses saying different ancient Roman variants of "yo wassup" at the start of the letters, so I don't mean to pick on all of the history of Israel (I might add that in this case if it wasn't a best guess that would be a ridiculous coincidence that all of the tribes had a number of members that was an exact multiple of 10,000 but who am I to judge? Maybe that was another miracle or something to make everyone easier to count).

What am I saying is that this is an example of something you don't need to know which is also written in the Bible. Even if it weren't for that verse we could probably infer it anyway, but supposing we had no idea how authentic that census was. What would be the point? So that later generations of the tribe of Levi could start feuds with the tribe of Dan over who had more able bodied men after a long period of enslavement in Egypt? I can fully understand this mattering to Israel for perhaps the next ten or twenty years. I don't think anyone in Israel cares today, nor do I see why God would care about how authentic the counting was of how many were in each tribe.

The reason why I'm asking this is that people sometimes ask me why I read the whole bible. Some people say only the new testament matters for example. But I think the difference between me and them is that I do not read the bible to derive any kind of life-meaning out of it. I read it because it's an interesting book, and from that perspective makes sense. But does it mean I need to know it? Probably not. I would be highly doubtful that more than half the bible is something a given person needs to know, even from a fundamentalist christian perspective. I mean, if you don't know all the psalms off by heart you might be missing out on some cool poetry but hey, there's no need to know that particular poetry, is there?

admin: No, I don't believe so.

Pinkie: So how would you answer Numbers 1:44?

admin: I think you've missed what I was saying. The bible needed to be written for ALL people. If I'm a musician I'm going to really appreciate the subtle shades of gods character revealed by psalms; the greetings your talking about in the New Testament are used to give assurances to more skeptical Christians that the books were written by the authors we think they were.

Its crucial to understand WHY we have the bible. The bible was given to us so that we could know God in lieu of the "special revelation" that came before. (God audibly speaking to people, divine prophecy etc)
As a result there are some parts of the bible that are essential for ALL people, (salvation stuff) and then there's the stuff that will be essential to different people to different degrees.

There will be parts which I find absolutely essential, but Rebekah may only find mildly interesting... And vice versa.

Sorry one other thing. As I reread our exchange it occurs to me that we might also be missing on the definition of "need". The only part we NEED from the bible is the salvation stuff. The rest is useful to differing degrees as stated in the above post.

Sorry for the atrocious spelling, I'm typing this on my phone!

nzlockie: Well, now you know how I always feel. With the spelling I mean.

Pinkie: https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTlNSN1YIIG4VS4CWCRQyTqz1w7aRJeiJUG0aQEh5S1FnO-pULt_Q

Pinkie: Well I suppose if a little pink pony says so then that changes everything.

admin: Yeah, it does. And that's Pinkie Pie.