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Transgendered Individuals Should Use the Bathroom They Identify With

(PRO)
0 points
(CON)
WINNER!
5 points
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama (PRO)

Individuals in the transgender community have been at a struggle for years.  Now that gay marriage is legal, there is more focus on us. The truth is, even before the trans bathroom issue WAS an issue, trans people have been using the bathroom they identify with for years.


My first argument is that I am aware you are trying to keep men out of women's restrooms, right?  Well, you will actually be putting men IN women's restrooms!


Here is an image of a trans woman on her website. While there are some who do not pass as easily, they are rare and usually start hormones eventually. I chose this woman because she defies the typical SJW transgender, and is actually libertarian.

Does she, born male, really belong in a mens' restroom?


Next, a photo of a trans male.  I chose him because he is someone who really helped me to understand what I am going through as a trans man.  (I didn't use myself for privacy reasons.)

http://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/162/photos/944000/Ashton-Colby-posing-topless-after-transitioning-413944.jpg

Does he, born female, really belong in a women's' restroom?


Next argument is health.  Many transgendered individuals already do not use the bathroom, in fear of getting beaten up.  These people in return receive dangerous bladder infections, and sometimes don't even go to the doctor because of their dysphoria with their assigned gender.  This can lead to extreme kidney damage, and even death.  The number of trans infection, and even death, would increase dramatically is boys were told they could only pee in the women's room, and vice versa.


My next argument is chromosomes.  While males typically have xy chromosomes, and females typically have xx, there can always be mistakes.  It happens a lot more often than you think.  If chromosomes really define your gender, should a cisgender (not trans) man with xx chromosomes be forced to get a sex change?


My final argument for now is making a separate bathroom.  I do not believe transgendered people should use a "transgender bathroom".  This causes them to be singled out, and even targeted as well!  We saw what happened in Orlando, where a muslim terrorist targeted and killed many gay people, in a gay bar.  Imagine the shootings in a room full of transgendered people, such as a trans bathroom.  Since being transgendered is very controversial right now, a bathroom full of them is waiting to get shot.


The truth is, if I walked into a women's bathroom (I am a trans man) I would get kicked out, and screamed at.  If I walked into a transgender bathroom, I would fear for my life.  If I walked into a men's bathroom, nobody would say anything and I would just pee.



http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/restroom-faq#Q6

Ashton's selfie.  Digital Image.  Myinforms.  Web.  7 August 2016.  <myinforms.com>

http://msblairewhite.com/

https://www.glaad.org/transgender/transfaq


Return To Top | Posted:
2016-08-07 14:07:42
| Speak Round
cooldudebrocooldudebro (CON)
First, let's define exactly what a transgender is.

"of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth" (1)

Note: This DOES NOT mean that they need to have the genitals of the gender they want to identify with. They do not need hormone treatments. They can simply "identify" themselves as transgender without having the parts of the gender they say they identify with. This leads into my first case.

Case 1: It Isn't Something That Can Be Regulated

My opponent said that if we did not allow transgenders into the bathroom they identify with, we would be putting literal men into the bathroom of women. He then goes on to say they don't use the bathroom due to fear. He then goes on to say they already use the bathroom. All these contradictions not only make his case unclear; but serve to further make his argument seem faulty.

However, he does not understand that one can simply say they are transgender and go into the bathroom of their choice. For instance, a man who claims to be transgender can go into the female restroom just to peek on women. In fact, this has already happened.

"In 2012, Ontario amended its Human Rights Code — dubbed the “bathroom bill” by critics — to make “gender identity” and “gender expression” prohibited grounds for discrimination. Family advocates argued at the time that the bill would create a legal right for a man who calls himself ‘transgender’ to use rooms and facilities intended for women so as to exploit women.

In the United States, problems have already surfaced from allowing a man who calls himself ‘transgender’ to enter a woman’s area. As an example, in 2012 a college in Washington state decided it would not prevent a 45-year-old man who presents himself as a transgender “female” from lounging naked in a women’s locker room in an area frequented by girls as young as six. So “Colleen” Francis exposed his genitalia through the glass window in a sauna to teenage girls on a high school swim team. But police told one outraged mother that the university could not bar the biological male from the premises.

Jack Fonseca of Campaign Life Coalition told LifeSiteNews that it “didn’t take a brain surgeon to predict that letting men into women’s bathrooms and other private spaces would eventually lead to sexual assaults. I wish we didn’t have to say ‘I told you so,’ but Ontario’s party leaders and MPPs were warned that the transsexual ‘Bathroom Bill’ endangered women and needed to be defeated. Of course this lunatic law could only make it easier for rapists and peeping toms to prey on female victims while masquerading as ‘transgendered’.”

Calling for a repeal of the law, Fonseca warned that “If this dangerous law is not repealed, we will only see a rise in male predators attacking women in spaces where they deserve the right to privacy like bathrooms, change rooms and women’s shelters.” (2)


"A man who attempted to use a women’s locker room at a Seattle swimming pool told employees he had the right to use the bathroom of his choice under state law.

David Takami with the Seattle Parks and Recreation Department said a man arrived at the Evans Pool in Greenlake Monday afternoon and paid to use the lap pool.

Takami said the man then entered the women’s locker room and took off his shirt in front of a local girls swimming team, which had just finished practicing. Several parents and other women using the locker room became alarmed and alerted pool staff.

When staff members confronted the man, he left the locker room and went swimming.

When he was done, Takami said the man went back into the women’s locker room and was again asked to leave. The man resisted, telling staff members the law had changed and he now had the right to use the locker room of his choice, according to Takami.

The man was likely referring to a new rule created by the Washington State Human Rights Commission that requires buildings open to the public to allow transgender people to use restrooms and locker rooms of the gender they identify with.

The man left the pool and staff members didn’t call police.


A similar incident occurred in Olympia in 2012, when a 45-year-old biological male who calls himself Colleen Francis lounged naked in a women’s locker room, in an area frequented by girls as young as six. According to the police report an eyewitness stated, “There were girls 6 to 18 years of age and they were not used to seeing individuals in situations like this.” But the facility gave him the right to continue using its facilities as he wished.

Those who oppose adding gender identity to non-discrimination ordinances and civil rights legislation have long warned the ordinances would be used specifically for that purpose." (3)


Should young women and men (for the reverse happening) have to deal with the constant risk of being raped just to fulfill the desire of less than .3% of the population? (4)



Do you have any proof that exclusively not using the restroom they identify with can lead to all those effects?

We aren't talking about chromosomes here. In fact, the condition you stated is extremely rare. (5) Around 1 in 20,000 people have this disorder in the USA. That would mean for every million people in the USA, only 50 have this condition. (6) They have male genitals and male characteristics. This still classifies them as male.

Let me ask you a question. Does the needs of a small minority trump the needs a large majority? Should a very small group of people's comfort have prevalence over a very large group of people's comfort? Should me and 38% of other conservatives out there have to feel uncomfortable for .3% of people?  (7) Should these women have to be in constant worry of being raped due to this? If you answered no, you are against transgenders using using the restroom of which they identify with.

Transgenders can easily use their own restroom at home. The comfort of many trump the comfort of a few.

Anime OP:





1. http://tinyurl.com/3ex7rfo
2. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3426450/posts
3. https://winteryknight.com/2016/02/22/man-claims-new-transgender-law-allowed-him-to-change-in-womens-changing-room/
4. http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Transgender-by-the-numbers-2342726.php
5. http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/x/xx_male_syndrome/prevalence.htm
6. https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/46xx-testicular-disorder-of-sex-development#statistics
7 http://dailysignal.com/2015/01/09/new-poll-many-americans-conservative-liberal/

Return To Top | Posted:
2016-08-08 00:44:46
| Speak Round
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama (PRO)
 Thank you for your time, you made some great points. 

I would like to address that you said men can pretend to be transgender and walk into the women's restroom.  While this is true, it would happen whether we implemented laws or not.  Some men especially can make very convincing women, and walk in.  While many men with obvious masculine features would not look feminine, there are many more who would.  Also, what is stopping them from coming in and raping in the first place?  Any man could run in, grab a girl, lock the stall and do whatever they wanted. 

Next, I noticed you want transgender people to only use the bathroom at home.  This would be a problem for people with certain conditions, or if they are rarely at home.  Also, you said I contradicted myself by saying many transgendered people don't use public restrooms.  I did not contradict myself, transgendered people are all individuals and are all different people.  Many of them do not use the bathroom out of fear, but many, especially those who pass easily, do use public restrooms. 

If a transgender man, born female, walked into the women's restroom with a beard, deep voice, and masculine physique, the cops would most certainly be called.  While family restrooms are an option, they usually only have one toilet and most places, and least where I live, don't have them.  Imagine if a transgendered person was at a concert, no family bathroom at the facility, and was about to urinate on themselves.  Would you want them to just pee in their pants, or go into the public bathroom that matches their gender? 

You also pointed out that "the comfort of many trump the comfort of a few", when you yourself want men walking into women's bathrooms just because they were born female, and vice versa.  Most real trans women look female, and most real trans men look male.

Also, on the note of sexual assaults, what is stopping sexual assaults from happening already?  A gay male pedophile can walk into the men's restroom, and rape a boy or another man easily.  A female pedophile can do the same thing.  Should we have separate bathrooms for different sexualities too?

In conclusion, what is in your pants doesn't define who you are.  Sexual assaults in bathrooms can happen whether we implement laws or not, and not letting trans people use the public bathroom can result in many different health issues (such as UTIs and even kidney problems).  Thank you for your time, and good luck.

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bathroom-break-controversy-is-holding-it-bad-for-your-health/
Common Sense

Return To Top | Posted:
2016-08-10 17:26:13
| Speak Round
cooldudebrocooldudebro (CON)


Rebuttal to Paragraph 1:
You assume all men have female characteristics. Many men could not pass for a female. That is just simple fact. The men in the stories I gave looked like men dressing as a woman. You could tell they were male. That's why the  security was able to spot them. The law would make it legal for any potential rapist to throw on wig; claim they're trans; and, go into the restroom. Without this law, these men in my stories would've been stopped before they ever got a chance to enter. You're missing the point entirely.


I'm pretty sure if this man tried to walk into the restroom (again masculine characteristics), everyone would know what's up. There would not only be major suspicion on any man who tried to do that, but, security and passerby would be on him like mosquitos to sugar water.

Rebuttal to Paragraph 2:
Could you give me statistics on how many transgenders suffer from such severe conditions that they can't wait to use the restroom? If you can't, you forfeit your point.

Rebuttal to Paragraph 3:
The irony is that is exactly what will happen with the idea you want to have! Men now can claim they're transgender and easily get into the women's restroom! It's almost like you're ignoring my case entirely! Irony is, most transgenders don't go through with the full surgery. This means that they still have a penis/vagina. They could easily go at home before the concert or (since the majority of trans people have characteristics of the gender they are trying to escape) use the restroom they were born with. The people should not have to bend for .3% of the population. If they want to use the bathroom, find an establishment with little to no people or go at home. The majority of transgenders feel worse or just as bad after the surgery for the few who chose to get it. How could bathroom access change anything? (2) (3)


"There is no conclusive evidence that sex change operations improve the lives of transsexuals, with many people remaining severely distressed and even suicidal after the operation, according to a medical review conducted exclusively for Guardian Weekend tomorrow"


"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."


Rebuttal to Paragraph 4:
Wow... Such a "No True Scotsman" fallacy...
"Explanation

The no true scotsman fallacy is a way of reinterpreting evidence in order to prevent the refutation of one’s position. Proposed counter-examples to a theory are dismissed as irrelevant solely because they are counter-examples, but purportedly because they are not what the theory is about.

Example

The No True Scotsman fallacy involves discounting evidence that would refute a proposition, concluding that it hasn’t been falsified when in fact it has.

If Angus, a Glaswegian, who puts sugar on his porridge, is proposed as a counter-example to the claim “No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge”, the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy would run as follows:

(1) Angus puts sugar on his porridge.
(2) No (true) Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
Therefore:
(3) Angus is not a (true) Scotsman.
Therefore:
(4) Angus is not a counter-example to the claim that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

This fallacy is a form of circular argument, with an existing belief being assumed to be true in order to dismiss any apparent counter-examples to it. The existing belief thus becomes unfalsifiable." (1)


As I said before, transgenders can be people who simply say they are male or female; without any defining characteristics making them the opposite gender.


Rebuttal to Paragraph 5:

The majority of rape is heterosexual. The majority of the people in the USA are heterosexual. (4) If we allow transgenders to go into the bathroom they identify as, it will also allow men who acts transgender or women to act as transgender (which is a lot more common) to peep or rape women or men (opposite sex) in the restroom simply by claiming they're transgender.


Rebuttal to Conclusion:

Using "common sense" in your sources is very disrespectful; as you assume me and anyone who disagrees with you does not have it. (This can be implied due to me not using your thinking on this debate) So, allow me to be just as disrespectful. The point went over your head, flew across the field, and hit a tree. Again, this will give rapists a better opportunity to rape. If this law passed and I had kids, I wouldn't feel comfortable, along with 38% of other conservatives, sending my future son/daughter into a public restroom. My examples I gave earlier demonstrate this perfectly. These laws can and will be abused. They can go use the restroom before they go out or suck it up and use the bathroom of the sex they were born as.


Music Video:




Anime OP:






1. http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/


2. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth

3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939

4. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/02/16/lesbian_and_gay_population_by_state_washington_ranks_number_one_in_gallup.html

Return To Top | Posted:
2016-08-10 20:33:57
| Speak Round
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama (PRO)
Thank you for responding, and good luck in this final round.

You say I am missing the point entirely, this is very ironic. 


"You assume all men have female characteristics. Many men could not pass for a female. That
is just simple fact. The men in the stories I gave looked like men
dressing as a woman. You could tell they were male. That's why the
security was able to spot them.
The law would make it
legal for any potential rapist to throw on wig; claim they're trans;
and, go into the restroom. Without this law, these men in my stories
would've been stopped before they ever got a chance to enter. You're
missing the point entirely."


In reality, this is what I said, and you apparently did not read it.

"While many men with obvious masculine features would not look feminine, there are many more who would."

I never claimed all men had female characteristics, but you can't deny that many do.

Next, you ask for a study on transgendered people who have experienced health problems from not going to the bathroom.  This is very respectable, and I thank you.  A study from the Williams institute interviewed a group of transgendered people.  54% of them experienced health problems related to not using the bathroom.  This is over half.  An even larger number, at 58%, reported they avoided going out in public at times in fear of having to use the bathroom.

Also, you say the majority of trans people have characteristics of the gender they are "trying to escape".  This is wrong on so many levels.  First of all, ever hear of HRT?  Hormone Replacement Therapy.  Most trans men and women appear as the sex that matches their gender due to this.  While they may still have male/female characteristics, these are usually very small and diminish within time and hormones.  Also, trying to escape?  As a trans man, born female, my gender was never female.  I was always male, but my sex just doesn't match that.

Gender definition:
the state of being male or female (typically used with reference
to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Sex definition:
either of the two main categories (male and female) into which
humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their
reproductive functions
.

Next, you say they could go home before the concert?  I am trans, and this actually happened to me.  I was hundreds of miles away from home, and my hotel was really far away (it was a big event, most hotels were booked), and the concert was about to start.  Since I look 100% male, I used the men's restroom.  No questions asked.  If transgendered people are away from home, on a long trip, etc, and there are no family bathrooms, do you want them to urinate in their pants?  Next, you say use the restroom of the sex they were born with?  Take note of the trans man I showed in round 1.  You want a guy like him walking in the women's bathroom?  You are ridiculous.

I would also like to answer on why transgendered people are depressed and suicidal.  My entire life I was pretty much told not to be happy.  Whenever I would favor anything masculine, it was shoved down my throat that I am a girl and I can't do that.  I can't get that toy, I can't wear that shirt, etc.  If my parents were more open minded and willing to let me do what I want despite my sex, I would have been a 100000X happier child.  It seems like no big deal, but I had such an unhappy and depressing childhood.  This is why so many transgendered people are still depressed today.  Nobody deserves a childhood like mine, yet so many people go through it.

While most rapes are heterosexual, that doesn't change the fact that a man can still walk into the women's bathroom.  Is there some sort of invisible barrier from stopping him?

My final point is you keep bringing up that transgendered people should use the restroom of their biological sex, or go at home.  Going at home can cause all sorts of health problems, and most transgendered people who pass would have the cops called if they stepped foot into the restroom of their biological sex.

Case closed.
(Thank you for participating in this debate with me!  Good luck.)

https://thinkprogress.org/study-transgender-people-experience-discrimination-trying-to-use-bathrooms-34232263e6b3#.slxchtwsx
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex
http://www.marieclaire.com/culture/g3065/transgender-facts-figures/

Return To Top | Posted:
2016-08-11 02:39:25
| Speak Round
cooldudebrocooldudebro (CON)
Rebuttal 1:
The irony is, you have yet to understand my arguments at all. I said that many men could not pass for a girl. This means the vast majority of men could not pass as a girl.

Your argument:
"there are many more who would. (Pass as a girl)"

Which is not as true as you may think.

Rebuttal 2:
There is such a thing as freedom of choice. If you do not choose to go to the restroom in fear, then you have to deal with it. I was born male. I did not have a choice in what I was born into. However, you had a choice in whether or not to pursue a transgender lifestyle. You could've easily chose not to get the surgery or hormone replacement therapy. However, you didn't choose to stay the way you are. As you know, many choices have consequences. This is one of those consequences. They could easily make transgender restrooms (even though they certainly don't have to). If you choose not to use that restroom or the restroom of your original sex, that's overall YOUR choice.

Rebuttal 3:
This debate about gender is a whole other debate entirely. However, I'm going to ask a simple question.

If gender is indeed so fluid and a social construct, why are there such a low number of people who identify as transgender/non-binary? Obviously, if it's as fluid as you say and is indeed a social construct, there would be more people identify as non-binary.

Oh, by the way, HRT for transgenders cause many health problems. This was article I'm about to source is written by a transgender.

"Blood ClotsThis is one of the biggest risks for male to female transsexuals. As many cissexual women know taking estrogen increases your risk of developing blood clots. This risk is greatly amplified if you smoke!!! If a clot does develop they can lead to all sorts of problems including heart attack, stroke and pulmonary embolisms (all of which can cause death). Also, because of the clotting risks you will be required to stop taking estrogen for a period of time before any surgery so make sure you disclose that you take it regardless of the reason for surgery. For example, I just had gallbladder surgery and had to hold off a week because they surgeon wanted me off my estrogen just in case. Better to err on the side of cation then end up dead!

Prolactinoma

A Prolactinoma is a type of pituitary gland tumor. They can develop as a result of estrogen therapy. While they are usually benign they can be dangerous leading to headaches, vision problems and even permanent blindness. If you take estrogen your doctor will monitor a particular hormone called prolactin. This will help them determine if something is wrong in your pituitary gland. Again, there is a low risk but certainly not a 0% risk. I know of at least one trans woman who has required surgery because she developed a Prolactinoma so it does happen.

Gallstones

Evidence shows that HRT can increase your risk of gallbladder disease and I can attest to it. I can't say with 100% certainty that my stone was caused by my taking estrogen but it sure grew fast once I started taking it. I also have a trans friend who has had her gallbladder out as well. Be very aware of this if you have a family history of gallstones.

Possible Risk of Cancer

This is a controversial topic so I will not go to much into it here. Some evidence says that HRT increases your risk of breast cancer while others say it doesn't. I will just say ask the doctor (like with all of these points) and know your family history" (1)

I took a look at your study. The sample is very small. There is around 50 people who were surveyed. This allows for easy manipulation of data.

That is only the beginning of it. I love how you disregard a lot of the examples I give you of trans people who look like their gender that they were born with; but here are more if you don't get the message.

Image result for transgender

Image result for transgender
Image result for transgender

Rebuttal 4:
This is not the case at all. There are many groups who were under more distress than you who had a lower suicide rate. Take the slaves; for example. Despite what horrid acts they endured, their suicide rate was very low.

"While some slaves did choose suicide, the rates appear to be surprisingly low. This is consistent with suicide rates for Africa and for people of African descent living in other areas of the world, and further supports the theory that a low suicide rate is an element of African culture. The overwhelming majority of African-American slaves chose to deal with their suffering through a variety of means, including resistance, external compliance and spirituality. When slaves did resort to suicide, it was apparently often in response to a deterioration in their circumstances or unfulfilled expectations. When the slaves developed dialog to address their suffering on an ideological level, they frequently did so through religious channels." (2)

If they can endure all that suffering and still not be as suicidal as transgenders, what are the transgender's excuse?

Rebuttal 5:
Again, the point flies way over your head. If they dress as a woman, the people and police can legally remove them from the bathroom. There is also pressure to not go in there due to it being against the law. If we enforce a law for transgender bathrooms, even men dressed as their gender can indeed still gain access to the opposite sex's bathroom just by saying they're transgender.

Rebuttal 6:
Their personal choice does not trump the comfort of conservatives. As I've shown, many transgenders do indeed still look like their sex.

Arguments Dropped:
Many Points About My Rape Argument DROPPED
"True Scotsman Fallacy" DROPPED
Transgenders Who Still Look Like Their Sex DROPPED
Letting Transgenders Using The Bathroom Won't Lead To Better Mental Health DROPPED
Examples of Where The Transgender Bathroom Law Exclusively Caused Perverse Actions To Occur DROPPED
People Can Simply Claim They Are Trans While Not Actually Being Trans DROPPED

I rest my case. With these many vital arguments dropped, it would not be wise to vote for Lucas. However, it would definitely be wise to vote for me.
Arigatou Guzaimasu!

Anime OP:





1. http://sillytranswoman.blogspot.com/2011/03/risks-associated-with-hormone-use.html
2. http://scholarworks.montana.edu/xmlui/handle/1/1654


Return To Top | Posted:
2016-08-11 08:10:52
| Speak Round


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cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius

I'll send you a new one
Posted 2016-10-04 06:47:07
KelniusKelnius
@cooldudebro I hope you don't think I was giving you the cold shoulder, it was a long weekend, so I went out on a drinking bender with the mates for a few days; just got back but the debate challenges expired. I do apologize.
Posted 2016-10-04 03:35:34
cooldudebrocooldudebro
That's really odd. It's glitching and re-sending or sending comments earlier than I want to.
Posted 2016-09-30 09:01:23
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius

I sent you challenges for two debates. I would be happy if you would accept both of them. One of the challenges contain this topic.
Posted 2016-09-30 09:00:43
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius

I sent you challenges for two debates. I would be happy if you would accept both of them.
Posted 2016-09-30 09:00:42
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius
I'm not here to argue with people who have to use age as a way to try to get their point taken seriously. Send me the challenge.
Posted 2016-09-30 08:56:17
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Actually four times O.o
Posted 2016-09-30 08:54:48
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Huh it triple posted for some reason.
Posted 2016-09-30 06:51:33
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius
Feel free to challenge me. I 'll accept when I have the time.
Posted 2016-09-30 06:50:52
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius
Feel free to challenge me. I 'll accept when I have the time.
Posted 2016-09-30 06:50:50
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius
Feel free to challenge me. I 'll accept when I have the time.
Posted 2016-09-30 06:50:49
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius
Feel free to challenge me. I 'll accept when I have the time.
Posted 2016-09-30 06:50:48
KelniusKelnius
@cooldudebro, I'm not asking for a safespace, and the fact that you even imply that I would shows that you don't understand why that's a useless form of argument. I don't see how we'd get a useful debate from each other, if you can't identify when you're using an "appeal to motive" fallacy, followed by a "false dilemma".

But, I'm not prejudiced. If you want to debate, feel free to challenge me, and if I have a counterargument I'll gladly debate it. That's why I'm here, after all. Just so long as you leave your emotions and prejudices at the door. I'm here to argue ideas, not fifteen-year-olds.
Posted 2016-09-29 23:59:20
adminadmin
@cooldudebro they ARE done to the site standards, and the site doesn't permit bullying, so insofar as that is the case I feel like @Kelnius has a fair point
Posted 2016-09-29 07:39:12
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Kelnius

Things aren't done to your standards. If you want it that way, return to your safe space. If you disagree, debate me on it.
Posted 2016-09-28 07:33:24
KelniusKelnius
What on earth is this nonsense? It looks like two people ganging up on and harassing someone they disagree with.
This is no comment section, this is unfounded insults, false equivocation fallacies, false analogy fallacies and rightwing bigotry.
Posted 2016-09-27 06:12:30
Bi0HazardBi0Hazard
Transgenders are among the most unstable, ignorant, and sexist groups in existence-Crow
CENSORED Reason: Political Correctness
Transgenders are really unstable. I believe it should be considered a mental disorder and the surgeries should be stopped-cooldudebro
CENSORED Reason: Political Correctness
The simple reality is that transgender individuals are mentally unstable, ignorant, and sexist-Crow
CENSORED Reason: Political Correctness
Did you read the debate? I was born with a vagina.-LucasTheLlama
CENSORED Reason: Sexual language
Would I have a vagina?- Crow
CENSORED Reason: Sexual language
The body I am born with and develop with, is in all sense my own god-given body-Crow
CENSORED Reason: Religion in public
It is a total cop-out invented to legitimize an unnatural and cowardly act- Crow
CENSORED Reason: Political Correctness
Could we attribute them to the holy spirit?-Crow
CENSORED Reason: Religion in public
And yes, transgenderism is a fashion. It is about casting fake identities through the altering of appearance and the creation of falsified labels. All in all, a very petty and pathetic affair.- Crow
CENSORED Reason: Political Correctness
I hate stupidity, a shameless society, and silly fashion shows.-Crow
CENSORED Reason: Political Correctness
I was born with a vagina, but I do not currently have one.-LucasTheLlama
CENSORED Reason: Sexual Language
Also, I am satanist and I do not really want to worry about a "god-given body".-LucasTheLlama
CENSORED Reason: Religion in public
Who you are is someone else. You betrayed yourself in the most cowardly of ways.

You were born with a beautiful body, and you hated and destroyed it in order to become a surgical abomination.-Crow
CENSORED Reason: Political Correctness
that there is more to being a man than having a cock.-Stag
CENSORED Reason: Sexual Language
there is more to a man than having a cock
I have a deep voice, beard, flat chest, penis,-LucasTheLlama
CENSORED REASON: Sexual language
I almost doubt the purpose of arguing with someone who we maintain is mental and delusional. By the very nature of the mental and delusional person, our reasoning may be wasted.-Crow
CENSORED Reason: Political Correctness
Posted 2016-08-20 03:59:41
CrowCrow
@Garnet

Need reinforcements asap
Posted 2016-08-12 12:12:07
CrowCrow
@cooldudebro

I almost doubt the purpose of arguing with someone who we maintain is mental and delusional. By the very nature of the mental and delusional person, our reasoning may be wasted.

Posted 2016-08-12 12:10:28
CrowCrow
And you still haven't explained all that nonsense about how "you feel"

Sometimes I feel like I am the messiah. Can I legitimately consider myself the messiah, just because I have felt that way before?
Posted 2016-08-12 12:05:30
CrowCrow
@LucasTheLlama

You do realize that the term gender has its origin in latin

The definition "It's how you feel" is relatively 20 years old, imposed by the transgender community. Like I said, it is for your fringe group alone to redefine the English language.
Posted 2016-08-12 12:04:25
cooldudebrocooldudebro
What the... That's an odd glitch. I didn't copy paste that
Posted 2016-08-12 03:14:43
cooldudebrocooldudebro
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/06/17166/

Can you father children as a man that are genetically yours? Also, I have no proof of what you're saying.
Posted 2016-08-12 03:13:00
cooldudebrocooldudebro
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/06/17166/

Can you father children as a man that are genetically yours? Also, I have no proof of what you're saying.
Posted 2016-08-12 03:12:36
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Something to Consider:
"People with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria are encouraged to undergo sex transition as treatment. But according to studies, over half of this population is likely to have one or more coexisting psychiatric disorders, such as depression, phobias, and adjustment disorders, which influence the outcomes, as we saw in the letter earlier. The coexisting psychiatric disorders should be treated first before undergoing irreversible, life-changing sex change surgeries."

Maybe we should focus on underlying psychological conditions that may be causing this instead of automatically going to the extreme.
Posted 2016-08-12 02:58:13
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

And lastly,
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth
"no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective
Posted 2016-08-12 02:56:09
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

What I'm trying to say is your body wasn't meant to be male. Just as this article goes to say:
"Cloete says that Ryland’s parents “learnt about a higher suicide/suicide attempt rate among transgender people” and don’t want to lose their child, indicating they’re unaware that “the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people,” as CNS News reported in August. They also are unlikely to know that 70 to 80 percent of children with their daughter’s feelings spontaneously lose them

“Gender dysphoria” (GD), we're told, is a condition in which a person’s body doesn’t match his true “gender.” But there is no blood test for it. There is no identifiable genetic marker. There is no medical exam at all. Rather, the diagnosis is made based on, as PsychCentral.com puts it, “strong and persistent cross-gender identification”; in other words, strong and persistent feelings that you actually are a member of the opposite sex.

Yet such a diagnostic standard would constitute malpractice in any other branch of medicine. Could you imagine a patient telling a cardiologist that he has a strong and persistent feeling he has heart disease and the doctor, on that basis alone, performing bypass surgery? The point is that whatever one thinks of the soundness of the “gender dysphoria” diagnosis, the basis on which it’s made certainly is not medically sound."

http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/item/19507-the-transgender-con-many-transgender-people-regret-switch
Posted 2016-08-12 02:53:16
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Regret Is Not Rare

Most people don’t realize that the outcomes of sex transition are not tracked over time. That is, no one knows how many people are happy, how many have regrets, how many return to their birth sex, or how many have died as a result of suicide. Even when studies are conducted, the results are often based on a minority of the participants because, as The Guardian reported: “the results of many gender reassignment studies are unsound because researchers lost track of more than half of the participants. For example, in a five-year study of 727 post-operative transsexuals published, 495 people dropped out for unknown reasons.”

"This young man’s story could have been foreseen and prevented if only transgender advocates had embraced the early findings of Dr. Charles Ihlenfeld. In 1979, Dr. Ihlenfeld warned his colleagues about unsuccessful outcomes. Based on six years of experience treating over 500 people with cross-gender hormones, Dr. Ihlenfeld sounded a warning on gender transition. He found that there was simply too much unhappiness among patients after changing genders, and that too many people who had sex change surgery later took their own lives. In his medical opinion, 80 percent of those who want a sex change should not do it. And for the remaining 20 percent, he found that that the sex change would only provide a temporary reprieve, not a lifelong solution."

In addition, many studies may report misleading outcomes because they look at results over too short a period of time. Feelings of regret or suicide may not surface for ten to fifteen years after the transition, but studies don’t track patients that long. People with regret have contacted me as far out as thirty years after transition.
Posted 2016-08-12 02:50:52
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro I read it. Give me one example where, in that article, it says the majority of post-op trans people regret it.
Posted 2016-08-12 02:47:25
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro No, but by your reasoning that means infertile men aren't real men, and vice versa, correct? Just because I can't have a kid from intercourse means I am not a real man, right?
Posted 2016-08-12 02:45:55
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Also, it does. Look at it and read it instead of just trying to put your beliefs in front of facts.
Posted 2016-08-12 02:45:13
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Inform me if new procedures came out to where she can be the genetic mother and you can be the genetic father.
Posted 2016-08-12 02:44:35
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

*sighs* I meant from normal sexual intercourse.

I just gave you the article you dumbass...
Posted 2016-08-12 02:43:57
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro Actually I can. I froze my eggs and they can be inserted into my partner and she can give birth to my genetic child. Also, you have no proof which proves how ignorant your statements are. Lastly, that link you have has NO proof that "the vast majority of trans people regret it". It just shows examples of misdiagnosis.
Posted 2016-08-12 02:39:18
cooldudebrocooldudebro
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/06/17166/

Can you father children as a man that are genetically yours? Also, I have no proof of what you're saying.
Posted 2016-08-12 02:22:12
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro 1. Show me the study. 2. I was always trans, and no I am not. Other than being able to cum, I have a deep voice, beard, flat chest, penis, male body hair growth, and many other things. I am not very distant from a male at all. Show me the study on which most trans people regret transitioning.
Posted 2016-08-12 02:06:24
cooldudebrocooldudebro
You didn't answer my question; either. Now that you're trans, you're further away from any real gender. You don't biologically function as a male yet (I assume) now have some characteristics as a male. You are still very distant from being a male. So, why did you do it. With the vast majority of trans people regretting it, along with never being able to actually be male, why do it?
Posted 2016-08-12 01:53:29
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

Actually, the majority of trans people never go through with the full transition; and, are just as depressed before and after surgery; with high amounts of people regretting it.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:50:30
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro There is evidence that when are body is made, sometimes there are hormonal issues causing someone to be trans. I personally changed my body because I always felt a disconnection, and it helped me with my dysphoria. Many trans people do not change their bodies, though most do.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:48:24
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Just wondering... If gender is all social and cultural; and, is not reliant on sex, why did you get your body changed to further distance yourself from the norms of society?
Posted 2016-08-12 01:32:08
cooldudebrocooldudebro
*grabs popcorn and noms on it*
Posted 2016-08-12 01:30:38
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
Yes, I actually was home schooled. Sex = biological. Gender = How you feel inside.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:29:36
CrowCrow
Define gender

'connoting sexuality'

IE sex. Synonyms. Same thing, always have been. The redefining of the English language is for your fringe group to handle alone.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:14:35
CrowCrow
"the state of being male or female (typically used with reference"

Define male and female

'of or denoting sex'

Gender is a synonym for sex. Were you home schooled?

Posted 2016-08-12 01:10:54
CrowCrow
" 1. I am being myself. 2. At one point? I always felt a disconnect with myself. 3. My GENDER is male."

Answer the question.

How can you be a male when you were born with all the defined female attributes? What is missing here?

You felt a disconnect with yourself? No, you were just hating yourself due to overwhelming insecurities.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:08:38
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow I do not fit the definition of the female gender perfectly. Sex =/= gender.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:08:14
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow Gender definition:
the state of being male or female (typically used with reference
to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Sex definition:
either of the two main categories (male and female) into which
humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their
reproductive functions.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:07:40
CrowCrow
"I never chose to be transgender. I didn't wake up one day and think, huh I am really bored and insecure, let's get a penis! I was always male."

Right. Your inner emptiness and insecurities were fleshed out over a longer period of time.

Are you on crack? Obviously you do not understand what gender is, if you can fit the definition of a female perfectly and still consider yourself a male.

Go back to Saudi Arabia, you unbearable misogynist. They are taught to hate their feminine bodies over there as well.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:06:35
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow 1. I am being myself. 2. At one point? I always felt a disconnect with myself. 3. My GENDER is male.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:05:31
CrowCrow
"Also, permanent fashion show? I'm being myself"

Nope.

You are a sell-out.

The real you was butchered and mutilated, because at one point you had no love for the body you were born with.
"Next, on your last point, there is more to a man than having a cock, and that's why his personality won't suddenly change."

Okay, then answer this.

How do you feel like you are a man, when you were born with all the physical qualities of a female, and acknowledge that personality is not affected by gender?

Three words. Unstable and delusional.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:03:11
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow I never chose to be transgender. I didn't wake up one day and think, huh I am really bored and insecure, let's get a penis! I was always male.
Posted 2016-08-12 01:00:01
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow That isn't really a good example of history. Also, permanent fashion show? I'm being myself. Next, on your last point, there is more to a man than having a cock, and that's why his personality won't suddenly change.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:59:11
CrowCrow
Let me just summarize the message transgenderism sends.

You do not like yourself. You do not feel secure in your own flesh. You do not love yourself.

Why not just give up on yourself? That's right, come and get a sex change! We will create a new and better you!
Posted 2016-08-12 00:58:58
CrowCrow
"When did this happen in history?"

The time when your own insecurities got the better of you.

Couldn't handle or love yourself, so you decided to put on a permanent fashion show.

That is all it really is. Just one big outfit you decided to put on for life. At that moment you had given up on yourself.

"Are you serious? Your personality will just change because of your genitals?"

Hold up.

You are the one saying you inexplicably feel deep inside, that there is more to being a man than having a cock. Right, and you criticize him...
Posted 2016-08-12 00:55:22
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

Suddenly Feminine.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:54:53
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow When did this happen in history?

@cooldudebro Are you serious? Your personality will just change because of your genitals?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:52:05
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

Suddenly Feminine.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:51:46
CrowCrow
"Not screwed up. My downstairs works just fine and I love it! Also, I am not someone else. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?"

I realize how stupid you sound.

You lacked the pride, honor, and love for oneself when you got surgery. History is bound to repeat itself.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:49:54
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

Suddenly Feminine.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:49:00
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

You're not getting what I'm saying.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:48:35
CrowCrow
The other conversation is irrelevant. A feminine personality? Yeah, a conformed and conditioned mindset on how women are told to operate. Why do anti-sexist individuals tolerate such a sexist group?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:48:29
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow Not screwed up. My downstairs works just fine and I love it! Also, I am not someone else. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:46:57
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro Answer me. Would you be a masculine female, or suddenly have a feminine personality?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:46:02
CrowCrow
"I was born with a vagina, but I do not currently have one."

Which was a screwed up thing to do to yourself.

"Being myself isn't fashion btw."

Who you are is someone else. You betrayed yourself in the most cowardly of ways.

You were born with a beautiful body, and you hated and destroyed it in order to become a surgical abomination.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:45:44
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

You're not getting what I'm saying.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:45:25
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

I'm obviously meant to be female at that point. That's how.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:44:44
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro You yourself wouldn't change. Would you be a masculine female then?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:43:47
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow I was born with a vagina, but I do not currently have one. Also, I'm on HRT. Also, I am satanist and I do not really want to worry about a "god-given body". Being myself isn't fashion btw.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:43:02
CrowCrow
"- every person who's hated on some group of people ever "

I hate stupidity, a shameless society, and silly fashion shows.

Sue me.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:42:34
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

I'm obviously meant to be female at that point. That's how.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:41:59
CrowCrow
"- every person who's hated on some group of people ever "

I hate stupidity, a shameless society, and silly fashion shows.

Sue me.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:41:56
CrowCrow
"Chemicals in my body being produced? It is a scientific fact FTMs (Female to Male) have higher testosterone amounts before going on HRT than ciswomen. Also, I never mentioned fashion, but you did many times."

Odd thing to selectively refute, since it ignores 99% of the point I was making.

You have a vagina and your body produces a higher level of estrogen. There is a bit more, but that is the jist of it.

Drop all the sexist dogma and gender stereotypes. If you can't learn to be comfortable in your god-given body, just like the rest of the human race, then that is without pride.

And yes, transgenderism is a fashion. It is about casting fake identities through the altering of appearance and the creation of falsified labels. All in all, a very petty and pathetic affair.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:40:20
adminadmin
"It is a total cop-out invented to legitimize an unnatural and cowardly act."
- every person who's hated on some group of people ever

This is confirmation bias at its finest.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:40:00
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro Still doesn't answer my question. Why would you "have no problems" being a heterosexual female?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:36:57
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro You never answered me. If you are proud to be a heterosexual male, why would you "have no problems" being a heterosexual female?

@Crow Chemicals in my body being produced? It is a scientific fact FTMs (Female to Male) have higher testosterone amounts before going on HRT than ciswomen. Also, I never mentioned fashion, but you did many times.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:35:14
CrowCrow
"It's not a lack of pride in myself, because being female isn't myself."

Now tell us more about your inexplicable feelings. Could we attribute them to the holy spirit?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:33:16
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

Of course since no one in society has been outcasted except trans people. I completely understand (sarcasm)
Posted 2016-08-12 00:31:08
CrowCrow
"You don't know how it feels, so don't speak on the behalf on transgendered people. You never felt the depression. You never felt the pain I went through."

You think you are the only one who has ever dealt with insecurities.

For gods sake...

All transgenders are doing is mentally conforming to gender stereotypes, because there isn't anything more to it than the chemicals your body produced, and the genitals you are born with.

Fashion! Fashion! Fashion!

There are more important things in life than fashion. Once you accept that, you got to recognize how pathetic it is that people are trying to change the person they were born as.

I feel! I feel! I feel!

All we ever hear is about how we cannot understand the feeling. Right, because there is nothing substantive behind the feeling. It is a total cop-out invented to legitimize an unnatural and cowardly act.

Posted 2016-08-12 00:31:03
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro If you are proud to be a heterosexual male, why would you "have no problems" being a heterosexual female?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:30:06
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

I'm confident in my own gender identity. I know who I am and I am proud to be that person. I'm a heterosexual male.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:29:28
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro Not everything is gained through experience, but many things are. One of those things is being trans. I can guarantee you will never know what it feels like.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:28:54
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

I'm confident in my own gender identity. I know who I am and I am proud to be that person. I'm a heterosexual male.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:28:17
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow It's not a lack of pride in myself, because being female isn't myself. Oh, and thanks for admitting I'm a guy.

@cooldudebro So if you "poofed" in a female body right now you would be fine? Maybe check your own gender identity dude.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:26:54
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@Crow

I'm friending you if I didn't already. ^.^
Posted 2016-08-12 00:25:56
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

You are clinging to "You never have been through it and you don't understand" argument. It's quite sad; as not everything is gained through experience. Not only that, you're assuming everything we know on the subject should be mute of the point because (I assume for Crow) we are straight men. This is not only very discriminatory, but also very stupid.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:24:52
CrowCrow
"False identity? Who are YOU to tell me what MY identity is?"

The guy that learned what gender was in primary school.

"Also, if I am becoming extremely depressed because of my female body, changing that isn't a bad thing."

It most certainly is.

Shows a lack of pride inself, and an ineptitude on how to handle ones own insecurities and emotional wellbeing without resorting to extremes.

Reason so many transgender/transvestites commit suicide, is because deep down they do not believe in their own nonsense arguments.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:23:32
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama

I'm straight. I know I wouldn't have a problem as I was born female and should be raised like one. If all of a sudden I was poofed into a female with all working parts, I wouldn't become transgender or lesbian/bisexual. You see, sexuality and gender have two main factors. These two factors are your hormone levels/pheromones and your experiences growing up. It would take too long to explain and would involve another debate. I would debate this if I wanted to.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:23:02
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow You don't know how it feels, so don't speak on the behalf on transgendered people. You never felt the depression. You never felt the pain I went through.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:21:50
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro You say you would have no problems, but the truth is you would. You don't know how it feels until you experience it, and you won't.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:20:12
CrowCrow
"I did feel insecure about my body Crow. I did. Wouldn't you be insecure if you had boobs?"

Would I have a vagina?

The body I am born with and develop with, is in all sense my own god-given body. If I went and got a sex change, I would be giving up on myself in pursuit of trying to become someone that I am not.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:20:03
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro So you're gay? Just asking, because sexual identity =/= gender.

@Crow False identity? Who are YOU to tell me what MY identity is? Also, if I am becoming extremely depressed because of my female body, changing that isn't a bad thing.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:18:37
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@admin
Alright
Posted 2016-08-12 00:17:06
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
*feel
Posted 2016-08-12 00:16:50
CrowCrow
"We are all unique and amazing in our own ways."

Yes, I am sure you are a very unique and amazing person

So why hide that behind a false identity and fashion show? Seems more like an outcry to fit in than a platform to express individuality.

If one of the interesting things about you is that you do not identify with the gender commonly associated with having a vagina, then I think you are doing the whole independent and unique person thing wrong.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:16:47
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama
I'd have no problems with my body if I was born a woman. I wouldn't be lesbian or bisexual; either.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:16:47
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow 1. Gender =/= Sex 2. It's hard to explain. It's just how my brain works man. You tell me how you fell male then. My essence just feels male, my brain feels male, I am male. I did feel insecure about my body Crow. I did. Wouldn't you be insecure if you had boobs?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:16:28
CrowCrow
"I know because I felt the envy and misery of having boobs on my chest."

Translation: You felt insecure about your body

"know how I felt my whole life, which was male."

Please, tell me more about what it feels like to be a male....
Posted 2016-08-12 00:12:46
CrowCrow
@LucasTheLlama

Either way or anyhow.

What does that even mean, you were born male? How do you feel like a male? Are you saying men feel a certain way, because how would you know being born with a clittoris? Honestly, isn't it just a preference towards long established and commonly conformed gender stereotypes?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:11:15
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow I will reverse the roles here, because you are assuming I am MTF. I know I am male. I know because I felt the envy and misery of having boobs on my chest. I know how it felt after I got that surgery. I know how I felt my whole life, which was male. I don't know how a female feels, because my gender was never female. My gender was always male, but my sex just doesn't match that, and that's okay. We are all unique and amazing in our own ways.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:11:14
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@Crow Did you read the debate? I was born with a vagina.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:09:03
CrowCrow
@LucasTheLlama

That's the sexist bs that I am talking about. What does that even mean, you were born female? How do you feel like a woman? Are you saying women feel a certain way, because how would you know when you have a cock? Honestly isn't it just a preference towards long established and commonly conformed gender stereotypes?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:08:21
CrowCrow
@LucasTheLlama

That's the sexist bs that I am talking about. What does that even mean, you were born female? How do you feel like a woman? Are you saying women feel a certain way, because how would you know when you have a cock? Honestly isn't it just a preference towards long established and commonly conformed gender stereotypes?
Posted 2016-08-12 00:07:42
adminadmin
@cooldudebro I'd prefer the resolution to be tied to a problem and not a symptom. So something like "Transgenderism should be classified as a mental disorder".
Posted 2016-08-12 00:05:40
CrowCrow
Start a thread admin. I will walk over you like always.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:05:09
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro How will it make me a lot happier? Imagine you were born female. Would you want to live life in envy and misery, knowing you'll never have the body you were meant to have, or be happy in the body you should have been born in? Go ahead. Tell me what you would do if you were born female. Would you live your life for other people instead of being who you are? And yes, give me the study please.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:04:26
CrowCrow
'That's like saying the Nazis made intelligent observations about Jews'

False equivalency. The nazis were wrong.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:04:08
adminadmin
And I'd say you're wrong. Opinions about who's right don't disprove the equivalency.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:04:03
CrowCrow
'That's like saying the Nazis made intelligent observations about Jews'

False equivalency. The nazis were wrong.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:03:50
CrowCrow
'That's like saying the Nazis made intelligent observations about Jews'

False equivalency. The nazis were wrong.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:01:39
CrowCrow
Noting with hate. Just mildly annoyed by the fashion show.

The simple reality is that transgender individuals are mentally unstable, ignorant, and sexist.

Observing the truth isn't hate speech.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:00:58
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@admin
Challenge me when ready. Transgenders are unstable. Studies, suicide rate, and many more things all point to how unstable they tend to be.
Posted 2016-08-12 00:00:38
adminadmin
@cooldudebro at some point when I'm doing less debates I'd be glad to
Posted 2016-08-11 23:58:13
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@admin
I will gladly debate you on this if you'd like. That isn't even a comparison.
Posted 2016-08-11 23:54:57
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama
How is getting your body changed going to make you a lot happier? Again, suicides rates didn't go down after surgery; and, many people regret the surgery (ask for study if you want it):)
Posted 2016-08-11 23:54:16
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro Sorry for dropping a lot of them. I'm going to Canada tomorrow and I was in a rush. If you would like to debate this again sometime, or maybe message me about it, I would be happy to.
Posted 2016-08-11 23:47:49
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
@cooldudebro It may be a choice, but it isn't much of one. The choice you describe is be happy or live a life of misery.
Posted 2016-08-11 23:46:56
adminadmin
That's like saying the Nazis made intelligent observations about Jews
Posted 2016-08-11 23:39:31
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@admin
It isn't hate; it's an intelligent observation.
Posted 2016-08-11 23:37:09
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@lucasthellama
Pursing a transgender lifestyle (sex change hormone therapy etc) is a choice.
Posted 2016-08-11 22:51:43
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@LucasTheLlama
It is heavily implied you view gender as fluid by your arguments. If I'm wrong, my apologies. Actually, you dropped a lot of my arguments. A lot of my points were dropped. You responded to a select few of my rape arguments. A lot went untouched.
Posted 2016-08-11 22:50:27
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Transgenders are really unstable. I believe it should be considered a mental disorder and the surgeries should be stopped
Posted 2016-08-11 22:48:30
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@crow
I have to agree with you. I will debate that too if requested
Posted 2016-08-11 22:46:40
adminadmin
@Crow I don't know how anyone can have that much hate for a group of people.
Posted 2016-08-11 22:26:51
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
(I am referring to "many of your rape arguments" which I did respond to)
Posted 2016-08-11 20:43:39
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
A lot of those arguments I "dropped" I actually responded to by the way.
Posted 2016-08-11 20:40:53
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
Thanks Crow..... I guess?
Posted 2016-08-11 17:13:12
CrowCrow
Transgenders are among the most unstable, ignorant, and sexist groups in existence.

Good debate though.
Posted 2016-08-11 16:53:54
LucasTheLlamaLucasTheLlama
Thanks for the debate, but being trans is not a choice and I NEVER said gender is a social construct. It isn't.
Posted 2016-08-11 15:06:31
cooldudebrocooldudebro
Correction for Round 3!

I meant 100! Not 50!
Posted 2016-08-11 08:28:53
cooldudebrocooldudebro
@crow
Thank you.
Posted 2016-08-08 23:57:26
CrowCrow
Personally I find it counter-intuitive to accommodate those with overblown insecurities and a desire for attention.

Should of accepted this challenge come to think of it.
Posted 2016-08-08 10:45:58
CrowCrow
You improved immensely @cooldudebro
Posted 2016-08-08 10:41:32
cooldudebrocooldudebro
What the...? The anime op glitched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tu14Ryul4g&list=PLK4WICeCCBRoh2VXJSUELCkcUbSdG3Woc&index=58
Here it is
Posted 2016-08-08 00:45:36
The judging period on this debate is over

Previous Judgments

2016-08-12 21:15:09
fire_wingsJudge: fire_wings
Win awarded to: cooldudebro
Reasoning:
lucasthellama just makes weird and very silly arguments, and makes weird pictures in his arguments. Cooldudebro at least makes some legit arguments which make sense, when lucas the llama does not make any arguments that are legit. Therefore, I have to give arguments side to Con, because he was the only one with legit arguments

Feedback:
Pro- you need sources which actually support your side, not sources of pictures. Cooldudebro gave good source. You need your arguments to be legit. Con did a good job, so I vote for CON.
1 user rated this judgement as a vote bomb
1 user rated this judgement as good
1 user rated this judgement as exceptional
1 comment on this judgement
CrowCrow
I disagree with the judgement on two levels.

I do not find the affirmatives arguments to be silly or weird. I believe they were simple emotional appeals.

The affirmative only used two pictures, and I believe they served a purpose. Are you sure you are not referring to the opposition?

I rated your judgement as being good.
Posted 2016-08-22 00:51:21
2016-08-14 18:45:16
dsjpk5Judge: dsjpk5
Win awarded to: cooldudebro
2016-08-16 03:49:50
BumiamJudge: Bumiam
Win awarded to: cooldudebro

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